Air Oil Cooled Filter Housing - Discussion / Excerpt from AMS Black Talon build thread

[CrackedDSM]

Originally posted in: AMS Black Talon

I don't want to make an entirely new thread just for advice, so I'll ask it here.

What do I do with a 90 air-cooled OFH for a street DSM? This car is never gonna be on any kind of circuit or auto-X tracks, just occasional driving of the spirited variety. Maybe a cross-country trip once a year.

So...what to do with it? Should I just put a small oil cooler up front and that will be enough? Can I run completely without an oil cooler at all? Should I trade it off for a water-cooled OFH so someone that actually wants/needs it can use it? Thoughts? Advice? I've never bothered with the air-cooled housings, so it's a new ballgame.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

I personally would just use it and mount an air oil cooler somewhere in the front. I removed my water cooled one and used a evo3 ofh which is essentially the same thing. Much nicer for downpipe clearance. Easier to remove the downpipe and work in that area and oil filter isn’t so close to the downpipe either. You don’t run the risk of water and oil mixing possibly either. Just my .02

-Daniel

 

[CrackedDSM]

I personally would just use it and mount an air oil cooler somewhere in the front. I removed my water cooled one and used a evo3 ofh which is essentially the same thing. Much nicer for downpipe clearance. Easier to remove the downpipe and work in that area and oil filter isn’t so close to the downpipe either. You don’t run the risk of water and oil mixing possibly either. Just my .02

-Daniel

True. But I was curious as to the size of the oil cooler as well. I don't want it cooling TOO well, but then again this is Florida. There's only like 3 months it'll get below 60* here.

Also, found some OG pictures of the Talon. Look at how young it was!

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Beginning to change my mind on the paint. Maybe I'll end up repainting it a nice gloss black again.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

The one I put on my car is about 12” wide and maybe 6-8” tall, about 1.5”-2” thick with -10an hose/fittings. From my understanding the ofh has somewhat of a bypass valve that will only allow oil to flow through the cooler after the housing/oil has reached a certain temperature.

Similar to the way the fiav functions, I wanna say like a thermostat but it’s not but sorta functions the same. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of this can chime in. The valve I speak of is the gold/brass hex cap you see on the ofh.

Also I had a black 2nd gen Cummins aka “black nasty”. I will never buy or own a black vehicle again.

-Daniel

 

[CrackedDSM]

The one I put on my car is about 12” wide and maybe 6-8” tall, about 1.5”-2” thick with -10an hose/fittings. From my understanding the ofh has somewhat of a bypass valve that will only allow oil to flow through the cooler after the housing/oil has reached a certain temperature.

Similar to the way the fiav functions, I wanna say like a thermostat but it’s not but sorta functions the same. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of this can chime in. The valve I speak of is the gold/brass hex cap you see on the ofh.

Also I had a black 2nd gen Cummins aka “black nasty”. I will never buy or own a black vehicle again.

-Daniel

Ah yes, tell me about it. Both of my cars are both black, and my God in pollen season you might as well not even wash them. They're immediately yellow like an hour after washing them. And if it rains? Meh. It feels sacrilegious almost, but I want to paint this car white/black. Keep the solid black top(including tint) which is 100% easier to wash/wipe down/maintain, and have a nice white bottom. Panda's are hawt!


And I have actually pulled the gold/brass cap off and found the spring/thermostat inside of it. So that's pretty awesome to know! In that case, 100% just gonna run a nice decent oil cooler then. Thanks for the experience/advice!

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

My car has never had an oil cooler being it was originally a non turbo car, never will have one. I’ve always followed David Buschurs input on that one, if you’re not doing any constant non stop on and off throttle driving like auto cross or going to the road course then it’s just a catch all for bearing material if you lose an engine. Drag car or street car 100% not necessary.

 

[19Eclipse90]

I don’t run a cooler with the ‘90 turbo housing. Just bypassed the oil temp regulator. I thought I might add a cooler eventually but that hasn’t happened in 6+ years. This is daily driver duties with hints of spirited lead-footing from time to time and never with immediate shut downs after a turn at high RPMs. Refer to: Oil cooler deletion help!

I really wish I had a spare standard N/T housing as I’m less and less concerned with making power than I am having a reliable machine. Simply blocking off ports on the ‘90 housing like I have (again, oil temp regulator bypassed) doesn’t do as much as I’d like to minimize potential leak points. But it does the job and I still prefer it over the water-cooled housing.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Ah yes, tell me about it. Both of my cars are both black, and my God in pollen season you might as well not even wash them. They're immediately yellow like an hour after washing them. And if it rains? Meh. It feels sacrilegious almost, but I want to paint this car white/black. Keep the solid black top(including tint) which is 100% easier to wash/wipe down/maintain, and have a nice white bottom. Panda's are hawt!


And I have actually pulled the gold/brass cap off and found the spring/thermostat inside of it. So that's pretty awesome to know! In that case, 100% just gonna run a nice decent oil cooler then. Thanks for the experience/advice!

Yeah it’s pollen season here in PA. My tonneau cover on the ranger is yellow within 10 minutes of washing it. Like you said it’s almost pointless. The vehicles outside are white but I still see it it drives me up the wall. If it’s not pollen it’s horse shit or mud from the dunkards.

I see the point listed above with the whole catching bearing material and debris but if you lose a motor you’ll be cleaning a hell of a lot more than just an oil cooler out. At that point I’d just buy a new one.

-Daniel

 

[Tina94]

I look at it as cheap insurance. My 3rd gen camaro can’t stay cool on long drives. The 20 year old flex-a-lites that worked ok on the n/a 305 don’t really work on a turbocharged 6.0 with big headers and 10’ worth of turbo piping crammed into the bay.

I run a huge tranny cooler designed for tow rigs, auxiliary power steering cooler, and remote oil cooler. I figure that way, with all that extra heat being rejected to the atmosphere, maybe I buy myself a precious few more minutes to make it to a gas station or parking lot when temps start getting climbing.

I went to the extra effort and pain in the ass to keep mine intact and functioning on my laser when doing fmic. Just my opinion.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

I also wanted to add another reason I opted for the external oil cooler was because I don’t run water lines on my turbo either. This reason with the ones I posted above are the why I chose to run one personally. I felt as said above it was for insurance and a piece of mind for me to know my oil should be staying somewhat cool and not losing its a ability to its job properly.

-Daniel

 

[DreamChaser7]

Good info here. I planned to run one and tracked down a brand new 90 housing from Amayama recently. Already had two water cooled housings when I learned about it. Guess I’ll have options when the time comes. Seems like good insurance to me, hot as hell here most of the year.

 

[19Eclipse90]

I also wanted to add another reason I opted for the external oil cooler was because I don’t run water lines on my turbo either. This reason with the ones I posted above are the why I chose to run one personally. I felt as said above it was for insurance and a piece of mind for me to know my oil should be staying somewhat cool and not losing its a ability to its job properly.

-Daniel

Guess I’ll add, for full disclosure, I am not running water to my turbo, either.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I already have a non turbo water pipe on the car so I won’t be running water lines to my turbo either. Which I’m kinda conflicted about, but I have another turbo water pipe if I need one/get paranoid.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

It definitely doesn’t hurt anything, like someone else stated you lose an engine just replacing the cooler is an option. I think Buschur’s point was in a street car or drag car he found no benefit to having one of with a 4g63 even on the 90+ degree days we get here in Ohio in the summer as even on the hottest days he never encountered oil temperature issues, but that doesn’t mean it would do any harm to have it for reassurance. I typically would put about 4k miles on my car a season, and that was beating the living crap out of it, I wont sugar coat it I was constantly breaking the front tires free just for something to do and beating the absolute shit out of it because it was fun, I never seen a problem not having it, if anything it was more potential oil leaks I didn’t have to deal with. In the same light I’ll never knock anyone for running one.

 

[We're on Boost]

I’ve always followed David Buschurs input on that one ..... Drag car or street car 100% not necessary.

Lucas English told me pretty much the same thing. At the time I thought I might do a track day once in a while (road race circuit), so they put an oil cooler on the car. Now I'm pretty sure I want to take it off.

I don’t run a cooler with the ‘90 turbo housing. Just bypassed the oil temp regulator. I thought I might add a cooler eventually but that hasn’t happened in 6+ years. This is daily driver duties with hints of spirited lead-footing from time to time and never with immediate shut downs after a turn at high RPMs. Refer to: Oil cooler deletion help!

I looked at that 2012 thread and just want show it with a labeled picture to be sure I get it.
So here is a screen shot from a Jafro video that I marked up to show the circlip, plunger, and spring.
It's just those 3 parts you take out, right? Then you screw the rest of it back onto the OFH.
And you block off the 2 ports that used to go to your oil cooler with proper thread bolts and washers like the ones STM sells for DSM "oil cooler delete kit".
That's it, right?

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[19Eclipse90]

Gary, you would remove the C-clip and pull off anything that becomes loose / removable with the c-clip off.

Hiroshi shows in the last post of that linked thread that there’s 4 total parts removed, including the c-clip.

 

[We're on Boost]

Gary, you would remove the C-clip and pull off anything that becomes loose / removable with the c-clip off.

Hiroshi shows in the last post of that linked thread that there’s 4 total parts removed, including the c-clip.

Ahh, Ok. In that post where Hiroshi shows the parts laid out, he is saying that if you put the threaded cap part back in with the rod/thermostat part still on it, that it will restrict flow a little bit. But if you cut/remove the rod/thermostat part and put just the threaded cap part back in, your restriction should be just as low as if you were to loop the 2 oil cooler ports to each other. As low as you can get then, I guess. Or if you can find a proper plug to replace that thing, put the plug in there instead of the threaded cap.

Like @DreamChaser7 I bought a brand new 1990 type OFH (MD132912) from Amayama and I'm looking at it right now. I'll probably have to bolt it down to something to take that thermostat valve out for a look.

But I'm thinking 2 things just by looking at it like this.
1.) Anything that goes more than 3/4" into the housing where that threaded cap is would probably interfere some with the flow. (Like Hiroshi said, get rid of that rod).
2.) There is no sealing washer under the head of that threaded cap. Or is there something inside where I haven't seen yet? I'm thinking maybe it's pipe thread, otherwise how does it seal? It looks like it could be 1/2" JIS PT (1/2" BSPT).
Horrible thought, maybe it's just ordinary straight thread and it seals on this face?

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[19Eclipse90]

Also from Hiroshi, no washer: 1G oil filter housing leak

I’ve not looked at the thread that closely but that’s a good point you make that a standard straight metric thread won’t likely seal by itself. I’ll see if I can look at a spare I have over the weekend.

For purposes of reuse, I would stray away from cutting the rod.

I actually was in the same boat and couldn’t believe it had no washer so I put one in when I reinstalled the housing. It didn’t create a big leak but it did seep. Then I saw Hiroshi’s post so I removed the washer. Still concerned about a leak, I used thread sealant as a backup. Probably unnecessary but figured it was easily reversible and wouldn’t affect anything else.

 

[We're on Boost]

Also from Hiroshi, no washer: 1G oil filter housing leak

I’ve not looked at the thread that closely but that’s a good point you make that a standard straight metric thread won’t likely seal by itself. I’ll see if I can look at a spare I have over the weekend.

For purposes of reuse, I would stray away from cutting the rod.

I actually was in the same boat and couldn’t believe it had no washer so I put one in when I reinstalled the housing. It didn’t create a big leak but it did seep. ThenI saw Hiroshi’s post so I removed the washer. Still concerned about a leak, I used thread sealant as a backup. Probably unnecessary but figured it was easily reversible and wouldn’t affect anything else.

That is the stuff I've been thinking about. Good to know!
I'd like to not cut the rod too. For one thing, I don't know what all I'd run into trying to clean everything out of the inside of that threaded cap that could possibly come loose and go right into the engine. I mean, this thing is after the oil filter.
Putting something fresh, new, and simple in there to replace the threaded cap, that would be my 1st choice.

Hiroshi, in that "Leak" thread, is pointing with a green arrow to the OEM sealing face that's down in the hole in the OFH.
That would seal to the face on the end of the cap that I pointed to here in post #17.
That's both bad news and good news I think.
Because I don't think you'd ever find any generic industrial plug to do that.

But if you wanted to seal to the external face instead, on the outside of the housing just underneath the head of the threaded cap, that face on the OFH would have to be machined nice and smooth. And it is! Smooth, flat, and square with the hole axis.
My new OFH is nice and clean so I can see that face and it looks to me like you could seal to it, with a proper plug and a proper soft metal washer (aluminum or copper washer).
I can see where the OEM cap that goes there would probably not do it. You'd need a plug with a proper machined flange there that is made to seal against a copper or aluminum washer.

Hiroshi guessed that the thread there is M24x1.5mm. If that is really what it is, good! There are lots of oil drain plugs made with that thread, and some of them are heavy duty enough I think, for the high oil pressure.
Do you have a metric screw pitch gauge Brian? Could you verify if the threads on that cap are M24x1.5mm?

 

[19Eclipse90]

Fortunately, metric thread sizes are not so difficult to determine! If it’s a 1.50mm pitch, it will match any other sized bolt with the same pitch. We know oil filters are M20 x 1.50mm pitch. So here’s the oil cooler bypass valve aligned with the threads of the oil filter water cooler stud.

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Also, here’s some measured photos. With 1.50 mm pitch, you’d move two thread peaks from the fixed measuring jaw to the moving measuring jaw, or in 3.00 mm, shown here.

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Finally, overall diameter (major thread diameter) comes out to 24mm.

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Conclusion is that M24 x 1.50mm pitch is correct. And no signs anywhere in ASA or the FSM that there is a sealing washer for this threading into the OFH.

1/2” BSPT thread would be closer to, but a little smaller than, a M22 diameter.

Not trying to dumb it down too much - just hoping that maybe presented like this it might help others understand metric threads a little better.

 

[We're on Boost]

Conclusion is that M24 x 1.50mm pitch is correct.

Yeah!
Ok good. There are lots of M24 x 1.5mm drain plugs available and some are really nice, stainless steel even.
Looks like they are used by a number of Audi and VW models, and some Japanese models.
So now I think I know how the whole thing is going to go from start to finish.
I didn't really want to loop a hose between the 2 oil cooler ports, and I didn't want to mangle one of those thermostats.
Blocking off the 2 oil cooler ports and replacing the thermostat with a good heavy duty oil drain plug should do it!

Wonder if we could move these posts to a new thread. Because there’s tons of good info here I think others should be able to find. Not sure if they’d be able to find it just cruising my build thread.

That would be ok with me!