1G Aftermarket Rear Spoiler?

[iowaboostin]

its probably just me but i love this spoiler

Hopefully just you

 

[frigginlazer]

yep, third vote for just you. Sorry....

 

[Gary 420A RS]

its probably just me but i love this spoiler

i love how it looks backwards

 

[frigginlazer]

my god your right! thats just great! :laugh:


Mike

 

[Demagosos]

is there a way of taking the 2g gst/x spoiler and putting it on the 2gnt? if there is, anyone have any idea where i could get one?

 

[BlueTalon95]

Where there's a drill, there's a way...



http://www.groundeffects.com/wings/mitsueclip95.htm

 

[mavisky]

Anyone in here arguing about how a wing affects a car's aerodynamic properties is doing nothing but talking out of their ass unless you've spent some time in aerodynamic studies. I spent only 6 months in a windtunnel testing environment at college and learned more in that amount of time than i could imagine. Everyone out there thinks that in order for a wing to work that you have to be traveling at 200 mph for it do anything. Consider this, a wing or any other aerodynamic aid simply controls the flow of air around a vehicle. Now this effect doesn't just magically come on like a light switch at 100mph, but rather anytime air is flowing over the surface of the vehicle. Technically if a car is sitting still and has a headwind blowing over it then the aerodynamic aid is actually working, it's taking the airflow and controlling the way it sticks to the car's body. A car's wing works the same way as a reversed plane wing. Being that it speeds up the air on one side while reducing speed on the other side to create downforce, as opposed to lift on an aircraft. The reason a chin spoiler (such as the RM lip spoiler , or whatever it is that almost every 2g now has) works is because it actually reduces the amount of air flowing underneath the vehicle forcing the air to go over the top of it. The air underneath the car will now actually pull the car closer to the ground. The nice thing about this mod is that ,unlike a rear wing, it improves the downforce while not adding drag. Look at Ferrari and their newer cars like the 360, Enzo, 430, 575, as opposed to the F40 or F50. On the F40 and F50 they used large wings to get the kind of downforce they needed, but the added drag probably hurt the vehicles performance a little bit. On the newer ones they use carbon fiber undertrays with Venturi tunnels to control the speed of the airflow underneath the vehicle which gives them the same downforce if not more while not adding additional and detrimental drag.

OK sorry that was so long, but i get sick and tired of shadetree mechanics debating shit they know nothing about.

 

[leet]

Well, I wasn't going to go THAT long winded, but that was what I was trying to say

 

[02BLUR]

I've been reading some, and what I found is that aerodynamic forces do not take place until 70Mph or above. So I guess if you are racing around everywhere travelling at or above 70Mph, then I guess a nice tail is for you.

But the question is: which tails DO work? I'm sure the WRC cars have functional tails.

 

[mavisky]

I've been reading some, and what I found is that aerodynamic forces do not take place until 70Mph or above. So I guess if you are racing around everywhere travelling at or above 70Mph, then I guess a nice tail is for you.

But the question is: which tails DO work? I'm sure the WRC cars have functional tails.

omfg did you just totally skip the paragraph i wrote two posts up??

 

[leet]

Blur, I'm sure that the wings used on WRC cars have seen wind tunnel time.

Mavisky, a wing will provide benefits at lower speeds, sure, but wouldn't it work more efficiently at a higher speed, considering there is more airflow?

On a whim one day, I cut out panels to mount on the underside of my car. Now I just need lots of free time, and to figure out how to mount them. Has anyone else put thought into undertrays for a DSM?

 

[volcom121]

Nope not that i'd heard of, but i had a custom undertray on my previous MR2 Turbo That car is not with us anymore...

A moment of silence please....

 

[02BLUR]

omfg did you just totally skip the paragraph i wrote two posts up??

I'll bite my tongue on this one. Sorry, Sir.

 

[mavisky]

Blur, I'm sure that the wings used on WRC cars have seen wind tunnel time.

Mavisky, a wing will provide benefits at lower speeds, sure, but wouldn't it work more efficiently at a higher speed, considering there is more airflow?

On a whim one day, I cut out panels to mount on the underside of my car. Now I just need lots of free time, and to figure out how to mount them. Has anyone else put thought into undertrays for a DSM?

Yes the wings use would be increased by the speed of the vehicle to a point. The reason most people don't think wings have any effect on a car until high speed comes from two points. The first is the fact that they assume that they connect the high speed of a racecar with the wings usefullness. The second comes from the manufacturers of various automobiles. Many auto makers will claim that car x with its new spoiler creates 100lbs of downforce at 130mph. Now this doesn't mean that its useless at any speed up until then, but rather that at 130mph it makes a nicely printed number. They could say that at 55mph the same wing produces 47.527 lbs of downforce, but you can see why they don't do that. Now it can be the case where a wing doesn't see enough air to actually do much of anything noticeable at low speeds. Its not like at 30mph with your new wing the downforce will be so great that you could see your rear suspension squat.

On the topic of fwd's with wings on a street car you will probably never notice the difference of the wing itself. The extra downforce of the wing can actually promote worse handling by increasing the amount of grip on the rear wheels even further. Most fwd racecars, see old pics of realtime racing's integras (which didn't use the type r wing btw), have their suspensions setup so heavily towards oversteer that the wing on the back lets them add more oversteering tendencies because the wing will help offset it. This give and take relationship between the wing and the suspension raises the overall limit of the car's cornering abilities.

oh and O2blur, you are forgiven

oh another thing, i've personally been thinking about skinning the underside of my talon as well. a saturn driver of all things did it to his car on the net about 2 years ago and got a 2mpg increase on highway mileage by speeding up the air that travels underneath the vehicle since it didn't have to bounce around off of the oil pan and everything else. i've thought about a 3-4 piece setup so one could easily remove just the part you need to work near and maybe adding some holes for common things like the oil filter and drain. dzus fasteners would make a really nice and aerodynamic way to hold the metal to the chassis.

 

[Demagosos]

ive heard a lot of stuff like if ur FWD then rear spoiler is better or something like that, i always get it confused....but from what ur saying, they both do the same job, no matter if its fwd or rwd?

 

[mavisky]

I've been reading some, and what I found is that aerodynamic forces do not take place until 70Mph or above. So I guess if you are racing around everywhere travelling at or above 70Mph, then I guess a nice tail is for you.

But the question is: which tails DO work? I'm sure the WRC cars have functional tails.

i believe apr or ard or arp or someone who made wings actually had an ad that listed the CD of the wings.

 

[mavisky]

ive heard a lot of stuff like if ur FWD then rear spoiler is better or something like that, i always get it confused....but from what ur saying, they both do the same job, no matter if its fwd or rwd?

A wing is a wing is a wing. if you put it on a school bus it'd still add downforce. Of course wherever you add the wing it will add downforce. One retarded looking Pikes Peak Hill Climb car was a rwd corvette with a large wing on the rear, but they also mounted a very large wing on stilts on the hood, high enough to see under it, so that they could add additional downforce to the front of the car. It worked okay, but looked like total hell.

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

The dissadvantage is that the DSM isn't designed for an undertray. I am sure you could make something that would be better than it is stock without compromizing ground clearance more than 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch but to add tunnels to maximize effects you would have to reduce the clearance considerably.
From what I understand ( I have not studied a lot of aerodynamics) the ground effects on the side of the car have to be as low as possible to prevent air from sneaking in from the sides.
Like a race car the downforce will be greater the closer you get the front and sides of the car to the ground.

I think something like industrial conveyer belt material backed with rigid abs or something would work well because it would prevent air from going under your car but would bend if you hit a curb or speed bump. The dissadvantage is under pressure or vacume it would tend to distort.

 

[mavisky]

i wasn't going to make a underbody tray with venturi tunnels or a rear diffuser, but rather a completely smooth piece of 1/4 inch aluminum or less would be more than sufficient to improve the aerodynamics of the chassis. look at a ferarri f355, they did essentially the same thing with a cutout for the engine area and suspension. it's all totally flat underneath, it wasn't until later they added the venturi tunnels to their production cars.

on a side note low ride height and the venturi tunnels are what killed formula 1 driver ayrton senna. the car bottomed out in a 200mph sweeper and it lost all air flow throught the chassis's venturi tunnels, effectively cutting the car's downforce in half which caused it to understeer off the track and straight into a wall before he had anytime to react at all.

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Yes but up untill that point you get improved downforce. I beleive that was the main wreck or one of the main wrecks that led them to make a minimum ride height.
I would do a thin fiberglass or kevlar carbon skin on the underbody.

 

[mavisky]

Yes but up untill that point you get improved downforce. I beleive that was the main wreck or one of the main wrecks that led them to make a minimum ride height.
I would do a thin fiberglass or kevlar carbon skin on the underbody.

i looked into a carbon fiber bottom but that'd be uber-sexpensive. i'd estimated close to $1000 for it all to be said and done, and that doesn't even get the fasteners. i suppose fiberglass could be done pretty cheaply, may look into that as an alternative.

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

i looked into a carbon fiber bottom but that'd be uber-sexpensive. i'd estimated close to $1000 for it all to be said and done, and that doesn't even get the fasteners. i suppose fiberglass could be done pretty cheaply, may look into that as an alternative.

Yeah unless your making a full blown skid plate you might as well use fiberglass since if you hit anything big it's going to die either way. fiberglass would be cheap and easy to replace. Due to kevlars high abraision resistance it might not be a bad idea to do one surface layer just to give the small rocks and gravel and stuff something to battle through. Just make sure it's not too close to the exhaust. It also may not be a bad idea to do some small vents near the exhaust to help dissapate heat. either that or rout a channel from the engine compartment so some air can pass by the exhaust.

 

[FireyIce01]

I read somewhere (and I can't find the link, which really irritates me cause it was good information) that the best way to create downforce was a rather simple design where you have a passageway traveling the length of your car, under the car and at the front of the car it's very narrow, and as it reaches the back of the car, it expands, forcing the air to move faster to fill the area, and creating a low pressure area under the car. I don't remember what it was called, but it was so effective that it was outlawed in formula racing in the 80's.... anybody remember what it was, and who developed it? I know the only downfall was that the car had to be so close to the ground that it was unreasonable to use on a street driven car, for clearance issues, and the best way on a street car is to have as flat an undercarriage as possible, to prevent turbulence, and promote the air to move faster across the bottom to keep the air pressure to a minimum.

Edit after much searching:

http://www.imps4ever.info/tech/aero/tech_aero.htm

Ground Effects

 

[talon514]

4. No getting off-topic - if you're not replying to the thread starter, take it to PMs/email or start a new thread.

 

[mavisky]

I read somewhere (and I can't find the link, which really irritates me cause it was good information) that the best way to create downforce was a rather simple design where you have a passageway traveling the length of your car, under the car and at the front of the car it's very narrow, and as it reaches the back of the car, it expands, forcing the air to move faster to fill the area, and creating a low pressure area under the car. I don't remember what it was called, but it was so effective that it was outlawed in formula racing in the 80's.... anybody remember what it was, and who developed it? I know the only downfall was that the car had to be so close to the ground that it was unreasonable to use on a street driven car, for clearance issues, and the best way on a street car is to have as flat an undercarriage as possible, to prevent turbulence, and promote the air to move faster across the bottom to keep the air pressure to a minimum.

Edit after much searching:

http://www.imps4ever.info/tech/aero/tech_aero.htm

Ground Effects

those are also called venturi tunnels, see my posts above for other info on them. they work better really close to the ground, but something like a ferrari sits low enough as a street car to make it work.