after installing crower stage 2 camshafts and cam gears

[Turbizmo]

i drove for a while and sometimes my car turned off i dint know why my idle sounds lumpy and it smells different than back then but i dont know if its normal thats it turns off when it comes to a stop. i just adjusted the throttle body cable so it can be a little open and know it does not turn off but i dont know if thats a good idea any ideas? in idle my car is at 1 thousand and back then when it didnt have the crower stage two camshafts my vacuum was at almost 18 at idle now its like aat 5 does it soppoused to be like this is this normal?the smell? and the turning off sometimes??

 

[b00stedtalon2]

It is normal for the car's idle to be lumpy but it should not be at 5vac and turn off. It's a possibility that the timing belt could be off a tooth or so, since you did install cam gears. It could also be as simple as a boost leak.

 

[bullettdsm]

It is normal for the car's idle to be lumpy but it should not be at 5vac and turn off. It's a possibility that the timing belt could be off a tooth or so, since you did install cam gears. It could also be as simple as a boost leak.

All of the above.

Couple of things. First off, you did reset the ECU, correct? It can take time for it to "learn" your new set-up (though that wouldn't explain the vac). With that being said, by adjusting the TB open a little, the ECU is trying to adjust to the extra air, not the best scenario. I do understand why you did that. Also, it does sound a lot like the timing is off. Adjustable gears? If so did they slip? I would double check the timing. I have seen it many times on the boards. Guys are insistant that they set the timing properly, only to discover it is indeed off. Your description certainly fits the bill.

MB

 

[Turbizmo]

can i adjust the timing belt without taking of the timing belt since the cam gears are adjustable? If so how can i do it? also whats the base timing? cant i go to a shop and have them read the tine with that timing Gun? i forgot to mention the vacuum is at 20 when i have it on gear and then i let go of the gas but when ever i get to a stop the put it on neutral the vacuum is at 10 then when i am fully stoped they go to 5 just wanted to let you know that as well.

 

[TunaTalon]

If you haven't adjusted your cam gears they may have slipped off of zero.

Before trying anything expensive (or driving and risking introducing your valves to the pistons) make sure the cam gears are zeroed our and tightened per specs.

 

[MITSUracer420a]

wierd.... i never had this problem after putting in my cams. it does sound different though, but its going to.

 

[rstare]

I would double check the timing. I have seen it many times on the boards. Guys are insistant that they set the timing properly, only to discover it is indeed off. Your description certainly fits the bill.

MB

I would bet money on the timing.
Like I always say check, recheck, check agian.... you get the picture.
And Mark is right, this seems to be one of the biggest problems and it is happening all over the boards (it happened to me too).

Edit:

can i adjust the timing belt without taking of the timing belt since the cam gears are adjustable?

Get your timing set right before you start adjusting you cam gears. I would take those off to and make sure there perfectly at zero. Then put it back together and make sure the it's timed perfectly.
You can take a picture of the timing marks if you want us to look at them to.

 

[david-b]

Agreed with the timing. I've got Crower Stage 2 also and idle does change a little. But if you're getting a huge difference in VAC it more than likely has something to do with the timing.

And don't use the cam gears to fix bad timing. When I did my head originally, the exhaust cam was off by one tooth. I used the cam gear to adjust it, but now I can't make an adjustments on the exhaust cam unless it's retarding/advancing (I forget how it is right now) in the one direction. Spring time I'll pull the belt again and reset it. So, get back in there and do it again.

 

[Turbizmo]

well i put the throttle to how it was what i realized was that the bolts on the throttle cable where loose as #### so i tighten then and my car does not turn off my idle is at 900 and the vacuum is at 10 but like i said back then it was at almost 20 ill take pictures of the timing marks ill spin the crank so you guys can see where the timing marks are at since when ever i start the car the timing marks end up in different places. But like i said can whats the base timing on my 97 eclipse that way i can check it with the gun and see if its where it supposed to be at??anyone out there??????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Lorontae]

i drove for a while and sometimes my car turned off i dint know why my idle sounds lumpy and it smells different than back then but i don't know if its normal thats it turns off when it comes to a stop. i just adjusted the throttle body cable so it can be a little open and know it does not turn off but i don't know if thats a good idea any ideas? in idle my car is at 1 thousand and back then when it didn't have the crower stage two camshafts my vacuum was at almost 18 at idle now its like at 5 does it supposed to be like this is this normal?the smell? and the turning off sometimes??

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you might have a bad set of cams. Not only might it be the symptoms described to you by the other members of this board, but if you do a search about these particular cams you will know what I'm talking about........

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/289457-crower-cam-problems.html?highlight=crower

I was having similar problems that you are now. My car kept stalling out. Back firing at start up so I thought it was timing. Had it checked and then re-done just for the heck of it. Dead on. I discovered that my Crank and Cam Sensor kept falling out of sync. The signal was intermittent when I had my car hooked up to look at the data. So we went into the wiring for the Vehicle Speed Sensor, Crank Sensor, and Cam Sensor. All the wiring checked out. We were scratching our heads and decided to take the Valve Cover off and give the cams a second look. We set them aside my stock cams to see that the Exhaust cam where the magnet bolts in at the rear, the holes on the rear were like (guess-timate) 15 degrees off from where the stockers were. I sent them back to Crower to confirm our findings. They sent me re-done/new set and haven't had a problem since. I don't know what the mix up was. Anyhow, I hope your problem isn't the same as mine. Just giving you an idea of another possibility as to why the previous owner probably sold those cams to you. You might want to findout when they purchased them. According to Slippi84's post this problem dates back to late '07. Again, just something to check......

 

[TOONAH]

To set the base timing, you use a timing light off #1 spark plug wire and shoot the light at the timing notch on the crank pulley. Loosen the CAS bolts and adjust as necessary for 0 to 2 degrees BTDC.

 

[Turbizmo]

Well i re did the timing and took of the adjustable cam gears and put the stock ones on and i know the timing marks are where they should be at and i know my timing is not off this time. When i turned on the car the idle was at 15 but then went up to 10 then when i drove my car around the block my car turned off again at a stop. Also when i had fist turned on he car it smelled like i was running rich. I was thinking i might have a open injector and maybe a vacuum leak of maybe the spark plugs are bad im going to check it out tomorrow hopefully this will solve my problem. also when my car is at idle and i give gas say to about 1900 my vacuum goes down to 20 but when i give it more gas it goes up but when i dont give it gas it stays at 10 or 9....

 

[Turbizmo]

Well also I forgot to mention before I even put the cam shafts I had a check engine code for the MAP and my car was kinda hesitating kinda like baby fuel cuts I does not back fire but when I am in 1 gear and I am in 6 thousand rps and let them drop it just to do only one baby backfiring fart I never got to fix this problem because I was so psyched to put the cams on.

 

[david-b]

Maintenance before modding. So you had problems before, so you put something in that if done wrong could cause bigger problems, and now you don't know where the problem lies. Take care of the MAP error or whatever right away and then go from there.

 

[Turbizmo]

I got one more question do i have to have the adjustable cam gears with the camshafts? or can i just have the camshafts with the stock cams?

 

[Turbizmo]

well i got rid of the backfiring and the map sensor code. I checked my injectors and they where all fine. I changed my spark plugs to NGK-R standard and also i got me a damn $80 brand new MAP sensor and the car does not give me the map sensor code no more.

it gives me only the EGR "32" but its because I have the block off plates but other than that its almost fixed. My vacuum is still at 10 and 1 out of 25 stops it turns off thats only sometimes sometimes it just idle searches and doesn't turn off any ideas?

Some how it just smells like if i am running rich with my stock injectors there is no fuel leaks but the exhaust just smells not normal. any ideas as well?

 

[rstare]

Still sounds like your timing is off. I had a low vacuum reading (around 10" hg) when my timing was off too. If your timing is off it can cause you to miss, which results in alot of unburnt fuel.
When you took the old plugs out, were they black?
Try taking the new plugs out and see what they look like.
Agian, it still sounds like your timing is off.

 

[Turbizmo]

Still sounds like your timing is off. I had a low vacuum reading (around 10" hg) when my timing was off too. If your timing is off it can cause you to miss, which results in alot of unburnt fuel.
When you took the old plugs out, were they black?
Try taking the new plugs out and see what they look like.
Agian, it still sounds like your timing is off.

They where actually in good shape if i wanted to i could of used them again there where white and black around the thread side. #### man I think i am just going to take of the ####en camshafts. I still dont get it The car ran good for about 3 hours no hesitation or no backfiring after i had put the map sensor and the plugs WTF

 

[rstare]

So it's not missing at all?
What exactly do you mean by backfiring?
Do you have a wideband 02 sensor?
Your vacuum is still around 10" hg?
Like I said, I still bet the timing is off.

 

[Turbizmo]

OK I have GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS WELL THE GOOD NEWS WAS I GOT RID OF THE map SENSOR LIGHT AND THE HESITATION TURNS OUT I Had ####ED UP SPARK WIRES. tHE BAD NEWS IS MY VACUUM IS STILL HIGH AT IDLE AND I GOT ANOTHER CODE 43 WHICH IT COULD BE A BAD COIL PACK OR CONNECTOR. could this be ### maybe 2 of my bolts on my coil pack are all striped and don't tighten and one pf the wires sparks don't click on the coil pack. my car does no hesitate no more it feels like if its running good but why does it say MISFIRE. well AT LEAST THATS WHAT I THINK.anyone still alive?

 

[bullettdsm]

anyone still alive?

Nope we're all dead. Like that Will Smith movie, .

The 2 bolts that bolt your coil onto the valve cover mean nothing. You got two more holding it down. Did you put on new spark plug wires? If the wires are bad or arcing or something, this can easily cause a misfire code. I just kinda figured you covered the essentials already. So first off make sure the plugs are good and gapped properly and be sure that your wires are new and all engaged. One incorrectly gapped plug can do the same thing.

MB

Oh yeah, why are you shouting, .