A load of questions about tire rub, my current suspension, and GC+shock vs coilover.

[VanIsleDSM]

At the moment I have eibach sportline springs on tokico blue shocks, and it's way too low, I think I got some on the low spring rate side.. On the front I have to cram my 1 finger in to get it to fit between the fender and the tire, and I can only get to 1 knuckle.. This can't be right can it? this suspension was on the car when I bought it, but I've inspected it while working in the area and they're definitly eibach sportline.. I know they are supposed to be low.. but are they supposed to be this low? this is ridiculous... here's the pics:

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(I just refinished those rims myself, there's a thread about that in the appearance forum if you want to see more pics and info)

On to another conundrum, I just went from 20% 215/50/17 tires to bran new 235/45/17 on 17X8 38mm offset rims, as expected I needed to roll the rear fender lip in but it's fine now.. I am however very curious about the front, I swear I can hear it rubbing, but only on deceleration, could this be right? I don't think the weight transfer of only decel would make it rub, as soon as I take the slack out of the drivetrain with any amount of throttle the noise is gone, and when I turn the wheel hard over with the car parked and reach in to check the control arm clearance I can fit my hand in there.. so I don't see any way that the tire would start rubing the control arm from the tiny weight transfer of decel.. but when I put my hand in there I notice that the inside sidewall of both front tires is warmer than anywhere else on the tire, which leads me back to the rubbing.. My friend then said that it was probably the engine heat making the inside of the tires warm, good point, that relieved me for a moment, but then I touched the inside fenders, and they were not warm from the engine... I took the front wheels off and there's no sign of rubbing anywhere.. is there anything up front for the inside sidewall to rub on other than the control arm? it didn't look like it... I'm totally lost here, I know my axle on the driver side blew a boot and I cleaned and fixed it, but I think it was too late, road crap had already ruined it.. it seemed to be making a slight grumbling noise before, but noise seems way louder now, barely noticable before.. but maybe it's just me looking for noise because of the new tires? I'm gonna buy a new axle but I'd still like input on this.

And finally some advice on what may solve both of my problems.. some new suspension, I've searched and read everything I could find about the k-sport/d2 coilovers, which is one of the setups I am considering.. the other is ground control coilovers with koni yellows.. I'm leaning to the GCs/Koni because I like the fact everything involved is lifetime warranty. I do however like the pillow mount of the k-sport/d2, although I have a bran new ingalls +/-1.75 front camber kit ready to go, and i can do the washers and high grade bolts for the back if I go GC/Koni.. my application here is aggressive street usage, and I'll probably try some autoX next season when they do the driver training thing here. So what are the pros and cons of each setup? Another big question I have is, could I for now get the GCs and use them with my tokico shocks and upgrade to koni yellows when I'm back from work in a couple months? that would be key.. I've seen a few autoX pros around here who I'm sure can help me out here...

Thanks, I appreciate it..

 

[asian312]

And breath...

First off. The Sportlines are the more aggressive drop of the Eibach springs. Prokit is the ~1.3" drop and I believe Sportlines are ~1.7" accroding to the interweb. That really doesn't look too out of place and that picture is of the drivers front which tends to be the lowest corner (I dont know why that is...its like trying to find the meaning of 42...Oh please dont let Jtoby see this). How is the passenger side front? Is it just as low?

Onto the tire rubbing question. Based on my calculations you shouldn't be rubbing on the inside or the outside. How much clearance do you have between the control arm and the tire? One easy way to check is to unbolt the shock/spring, put the wheel back on, and move it through the suspensions range of travel to see if it hits anything. I suspect the heat build up on the inside may be due to alignment. If the car has that much of a drop without a camber kit, then its using a fair amount of the inside edge. Likewise if you have a little toe-in, it will heat up quicker and wear faster. Also what tires are you running? Some do run larger than what is printed on the sidewall.

Have you done all the other checks? Wheelbearings, brakes, etc. for causes?

Suspension...2Gs adjust camber via the upper control arm and not the shock mount itself as on the 1G. The pillowball mounts just refer to the sepherical bushing in the mount to allow the shaft of the shock to change position in respect to the suspension movement. You would still use the Ingals in the front or SPC plates found at RRE. I believe the perches used by GC on different shocks may vary, but that I can't confirm.

And lastly, the k-sport/D2 coilovers. I personally am glad I didn't go with them. My friend went the K2 route and the daily drivability for me is horrid in comparision to the Koni/H&R setup I use. Granted each person has a different expectation of what is civil, but that thing had the case of the 'honda bounce.' I daily my car and it serves as a track mule once a month. On that note, the K2s did felt exceptionally good on the track, but I just hated it everywhere else.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Thanks for the help, I tried to put lots of breathing breaks in with, and .. but I see what you mean.. hah..

My car has a camber correction kit up front right now.. ingalls.. but the bushings in it are shot, that's why I have a new kit ready to put in, just deciding what to do right now... I know I would need it with the GC kit, but the k-sport/d2 have an upper adjustable pillow ball mount so I won't need the camber kit for it.. The heat on the tire is not on the inside corner, it's the whole sidewall.. and yes my driver side is sligthly lower than the pass.. moreso in the back, today I'm gonna throw my donut on the driver side where is sounds like most of the bad noise is coming from.. then I should know if it's my axle or my tire.

The wheel bearings are bran new OEM, brakes have less than 2000km on them aswell.. I'm not too worried about a rough ride on the street I suppose, I don't daily drive my car, but how about longevity of the k-sport/d2? are they rebuildable? for a decent price?

I just read on ebay that the GC kit being sold would fit stock struts, tokico, or koni.. The GC website makes you choose your shock before you buy, so I thought they were all different to mount to GC kit, but ebay seems to hint that tokico and koni are the same.. that would be sweet, then I could just get the GCs now with my tokicos and get konis later, can anybody confirm this?

 

[asian312]

...but the k-sport/d2 have an upper adjustable pillow ball mount so I won't need the camber kit for it.

This is for a 2G right? 2G camber settings are not done buy shock position. And neither the K-sport or D2 setups I've seen have adjustable pillow mounts for camber. The 1Gs are. The 2G versions are just pillow mounts...no adjustability.

What resource is telling you this?

 

[VanIsleDSM]

I guess that was my assumption from pics I had seen.. now that I think about it, it's obvious.. the shock position would have no impact.. thanks for setting me straight on that.. ok, so k-sport/d2 is probably out the window then.. I suppose I'll call GC and see if I can switch from tokico to koni later on.. Read some more autox sites that I googled and a couple said that the eibach springs that come with the GC kit are of a much higher quality than their street springs (prokit/sportline)

I'm pretty excited now to be able to raise up my car a bit, how often you hear that one hey?

oh.. and the tires are toyo proxy 4s

 

[T2Small]

I found that 245 width Hoosiers would need me to roll the rears, but I didn't have any trouble with any 235s that I tried or Kumho 245 (narrower) with +40mm offset. I can't believe that 2mm with 235s would make that much difference. Either way, a local guy (Victoria) rents a roller tool and heat gun. PM me for more info.

With the car as low as it is, it is possible that you are rubbing somewhere. Personally I would get your self a set of Konis, coil-over sleeves, and some Hypercoil springs and never worry about being too low again.

For upper mounts, I had some spacers fabbed and used RRE upper plates. Come out to an autox and check out my car.

 

[olmytsi]

The sportlines are definitely slammers. I have seen some 2gs that rode so low i wondered how they dealt with it. My car still has stock suspension and i have had it since 2003. I have a set of eibach pros sitting here since november but i am really debating whether i will like rubbing on stuff since i have a front lip on my car.

You are probably rubbing the upper part of the suspension. Slammed cars look sick though

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Alright, I was busy yesterday, but I just now put my donut on driver side front and took it down the road.. it's definitly the tire making the noise.. I had my car off the road for a couple weeks while the rims and other things were being done, so it wasn't all that easy to tell for me what was up.. but it's settled now.. tire for sure, but it's not rubbing on the control arm, with space for my hand back there while it's sitting on the ground I don't think it's gonna move over an inch to hit that thing through it's travel.. and there's no signs of rubbing there either. The rubbing is coming from the fender.. it's not tucking in the front.. most severely on the lower driver side.. especially with just me in there.. passenger side is only very slight.

Now I think I may know why, my camber could be getting totally thrown off because my current ingalls camber kit has shot bushings.. maybe it's going way too positive when I decel and it rubs... I have a new set sitting right here, but I didn't want to put them in until I had all my suspension done so I could take it in for an alignment.. maybe I should just put in the new kit right now and set it as close as I can to the old one?

And if this doesn't solve my problem, how about rolling the front fenders slightly? I know the fender shroud bolts up in there but if I only went a little bit.... anybody done this on the front?

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Well I just finished putting in my new camber kit.. I just used digital calipers to set all of the anchors the same and put them in.. I made them very slightly more negative than the set that was in there.. although the 2 sets are different revisions or something, they weren't exactly the same, so who knows.. (they were both the black body -0.75 to +1) ..at least they're all the same for now.. but it didn't help.. maybe a tiny bit... I know my toe and probably caster will be out now.. I'll have it aligned soon, it's not a DD... just trying to find the best place to get GCs and Konis up here..

I just don't think that I should be rubbing on the outside front with 235s on a 38mm offset.. I guess these proxies are wide 235s, I can't really come to any other conclusion? it's very close to clearing, but it's not quite making it..

Another weird thing, the rubbing I hear I only really hear on decel, if I put the brake on to keep the weight forward and push in the clutch the rubbing goes away.. even though my weight should still be forward.. I guess the drivetrain pulling back on the car dips it in a different way? or the rubbing tire being connected to the tranny through the clutch just causes the noise to reverberate maybe? making it louder..

This just keeps getting more weird... I don't know why the rubbing is only happening with the clutch engaged.. or like I said maybe it's just louder that way, that make sense?

With the donut on there was no rubbing noise at all from the driver side. jtoby, t2small? any more help greatly appreciated.