95 Talon falls on its face

[Thugmaster1220]

So I was changing the drivers side headlight assembly, completed the job. When i went to drive my 95 Talon Tsi Awd that evening; the car just falls on its face.

If you slip the clutch out normally into first, it just bogs down and studders. Now if i blip my RPMs to about 3K and almost drop the clutch, the car will want to take off (as it should) but then stumbles and almost feels like its misfiring when trying to drive in gear.

I changed the plugs, which needed replacing. I found a good amount of oil in the (3rd from left) plug chamber.

I am currently trying to replace all my boost/vacuum lines, to factor out a leak from any of those. Here is where I need some help!

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Also whats going on here?

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[SkyGrowsCold]

The hose in your hand is for the PCV system and that filter on the valve cover is where that hose plugs into. Read more about it in this link http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

As for your stutter problem it sounds more like a MAF sensor issue but ruling out boost leaks is always a good thing.

 

[Boost_freak_87]

Sounds more like you have a MAF problem. Plug up the small hose fittings in the intake pipe and make sure the maf is plugged in all the way. Also, make sure the wiring for the maf plug is in tact. Do you have a CEL by chance?

 

[Chopstick88]

You don't want the holes in the intake pipe open, thats un-metered air getting into your system. Check the maf connector.

 

[Thugmaster1220]

Pretext: My Talon is stuck at my apt. for college, im at my parents house cause its closer to work. So everytime I want to work of the car, i gotta drive out there.

I tried cleaning the Maf to no avail. So I guess the next step is to go and try testing the Maf with a multimeter.

The connector looks pretty good considering the condition of the rest of the car.

Oddly enough when i started the car after changing plugs and vacuum lines, there was no CEL. My old man has OBD2COM so when i go to check the MAF ill search for codes.

Im wondering if theres anything else i should be on the look out for? Does it seem plausible that there are Fuel System Issues?

 

[Detail]

I've never had any luck with MAF cleaning. In fact every time I've tried to do it I've ruined the MAF. Do you have another one you can test with?

 

[artsvetkov]

Make sure that your PCV valve works, if its blowing out boost through that little filter, your computer has no way of knowing it, so the AFR's get pig rich and power falls on its face, also vented to atmo. BOV is not good idea on MAF system.

 

[Thugmaster1220]

Unfortunitly I dont have a spare MAF. I did talk to a guy near buy about picking one up for $35. Id like to test my current one with a multimeter before I spend the money to replace.

So that little filter is doing me no good, and I should connect that hose from my air intake to the valve cover? (That is the valve cover the metal filter thing is connected to, yes? )

Heres where i get totally confused... Haha. So theres a little nossel coming of the back (relative to the picture) of the BOV. Since theres no hoseing connected there im venting to atmosphere?

 

[2slow4utsi]

Unfortunitly I dont have a spare MAF. I did talk to a guy near buy about picking one up for $35. Id like to test my current one with a multimeter before I spend the money to replace.

So that little filter is doing me no good, and I should connect that hose from my air intake to the valve cover? (That is the valve cover the metal filter thing is connected to, yes? )

Heres where i get totally confused... Haha. So theres a little nossel coming of the back (relative to the picture) of the BOV. Since theres no hoseing connected there im venting to atmosphere?

You need to recirculate your bov instead of venting it to the atmosphere. There is a recirc tube that connects from the bov to the intake pipe.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Like dude said the lil hose in your hand needs to be connected to where that filter is. Then on the back of the valve cover the is another lil port sticking out that should be run to a port on the intake right behind the head. The BOV should be vented to the port on the top of the port behind the throttle body near the top of the intake manifold pointing towards you. On the stock turbo t25 there are two ports on the turbo's compressor housing. Get a vacuum T and run both turbo ports into the T. Then run a vacuum line from the last remaining port to the bottom port on the boost solenoid/sensor which should be mounted right under where your MAF sits. Then run a vacuum line from the top port of the boost sol/sen to the hole on the radiator side of your MAF. That should be the stock routing for those lines. Also check the multiple lines that run along the top of your intake to the solenoids and down the back to make sure they are all connected. Also on the intake side closest to the driver side there should be a vacuum port run to solenoid closest to the driver fender which is the fuel pressure solenoid. Run a vacuum line from the intake port to the solenoid port right under the connector for the solenoid and then a vacuum line goes from the fpr to the port on the top of the fp solenoid. Though unless you used MAF cleaner or starter fluid you may have ruined your MAF now. They are very sensitive. You should, if you have a scanner capable of data stream, be able to read the data on the MAF. At idle it should run btwn 4.5-5 g/cm and raise and drop directly with any throttle change.

 

[SkyGrowsCold]

So that little filter is doing me no good, and I should connect that hose from my air intake to the valve cover? (That is the valve cover the metal filter thing is connected to, yes? )

Heres where i get totally confused... Haha. So theres a little nossel coming of the back (relative to the picture) of the BOV. Since theres no hoseing connected there im venting to atmosphere?

That little air filter isn't killing you but if you have the line already on your intake best bet is use it. Yes that is the valve cover that little filter is on.

As for your blow off valve that "little nozzle" if left disconnected means your are venting already metered air into the atmosphere, which with your setup is not what you want. I guess it was my fault for assuming you had your BOV circulated since that hose hanging from your intake (first photo large diameter near your wrist) looks to me like that was where you would have attached it.

 

[artsvetkov]

With MAF set up, all the air inlets must be metered by that sensor, you should have a crappy or lean idle due to intake sucking air through the --> valve cover---> tiny filter. Unless who ever put it on there caped the intake. Look at your plugs, if they are black, than you are loosing boost that has been accounted in by MAF, and you are flooding your engine.

 

[Thugmaster1220]

So im in the process of checking the MAS and im wondering how to tell if it is dead or not. I read a post saying;

"Backprobe terminal 4 of the connector with the positive probe of the voltmeter and connect the negative to the ground. Turn the key to on but do not start the engine if the voltemeter does not read around 12v. If so check the circuit back to the MFI relay and fusible link.

Backprobe terminal 3, it should read 4.8-5.2v with the key on. If not check the circuit to the ECU.

Backprobe terminal 5 with an ohmmeter and measure the resistance. It should be less than 2 ohms. If not, check the circuit from terminal 5 back to ground.

If none of the above work, the MAS or ECU is dead. Replace it." -crimsondragon

I have my multimeter, how do I go about doing this check? Do i probe the terminals of the wiring harness or of the actual MAF? It just seems to me that if i unconnect the MAF and test the probes connected to it, they wouldnt have a voltage due to being unconnected... Unless the mutlimeter powers it?

Any help on how to check if my Mass Airflow Sensor is dead would be appreciated!

Okay so i connected a paperclip to my mutlimeter and got it in the back of the connector while it was connected. I cant think of what else you would do. Seems as though the voltages are correct so the MAF checks out.

I though my BOV was recirculated, which it is. And that filter has been on since i bought the car 3K mi. ago. The car ran fine up until a few weeks ago.

I took it for another test drive yesterday. It started up an idled perfect for like 3min, so i thought maybe i was in business, but when i drove it, same issue. The car would get to about 20mph and then shake back and forth (almost like when someone is learning to drive a manual and they release the clutch wrong) while I was driving in 2nd gear.

Any Ideas?

 

[Thugmaster1220]

I ran a code scan and got;

P0105, P0110, and P0135.

I bought a new MAS today and that seemed to help my problem a lot! But now there is a total idle surge.

The new front O2 sensor should be here tomorrow.

Im wondering if anyone knows the location of a "how to" on pulling the TBS?

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

idle surge 9-10 times is a tps problem. check out your tps with trottle closed ignition switch on car running or not volts should be btwn .48-.53v

aslo it should have adjustment on it. loosen the screws and turn it either way to see if it will take away the idle surge. make sure you don't have any vacuum leaks or lines off. As that would cause a surge too.

 

[blaze12]

Are mafs are a different design then most mafs , most have the hot wire kind , we have the vortex something any ways u cant clean it with maft cleaner , you will just ruin it . I thought the same thing when i first my 90 laser , so i went to autozone and bought some maft cleaner and was reading the back lable and it said dont use on mitsubishi turbo mafs and toyota supra mafts.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

^^ ^ +1 on that. I ruined a 2g MAF with that stuff. I cleaned it with MAF spray, and the next day I was getting fuel cut everytime I hit boost. I had to replace it.

 

[Thugmaster1220]

I would never use Maf cleaner again, despite the next to full bottle I still have. But seeing as mine was bad anyways cant really say what did it in.

So the oxygen sensor wires are not long enough to reach. Simple enough cut and splice to be done Sunday morning. But im wondering if this is the usual front o2 sensor location?

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If the oxygen sensor doesnt work, deffinitly will be checking the tps, thanks for the next step!!

 

[Thugmaster1220]

RESOLVED! New front oxygen sensor and new MAF got the Talon up and running. It doesnt want to idle on its own. But thats an issue for another thread.

Car was spuddering and would hardly run. Could get it up to about 20mph and then it would buck back and forth while driving.

Soultion=New Mass Airflow sensor and a new Front Oxygen Sensor.

Thanks for all the help of the members who posted in this thread!!! Im in college so working on my own car is my only option. The people here seem to know DSM's inside and out and have always helped!