95 GST CAM/VALVE Timing?

[1995GSTEclipse]

I just did a Cometic head gasket and ARP head studs and I set timing by the cam marks and TDC and all other marks and first try I got a "free-spin" (no compression crank). I then took the belt off to retime it after placing all pistons on center and turn the exhaust 180 (now with both dowel pins at 12) and I go to set crank/ #1 piston at TDC and my crank only turns to about 1-2 teeth away from TDC. Is there such thing as setting cams a proper way besides with the marks?? Meaning is there a special way that certain cam lobes have to be facing/oriented to be at exact TDC with the pistons? I thought that no matter how many times you turn the cams over, as long as the timing marks line up your good. Am I wrong here? PLEASE HELP ME OUT. Thanks in advance!

 

[HurleyTSi]

In some cars when you set the tension the timing marks will jump ahead 1 or 2 teeth. I've always remedied this by setting the timing marks back 1 or 2 teeth then when the tensioner sets they are dead on. Give that a try

 

[EagleTSIawd]

yes that is how you check the cams, dowel pins have to be at 12 o'clock and timing marks have to be facing each other.

This is how I installed my timing belt:

You place the timing belt on the cams (making sure everything stays aligned) and clamp the belt on the cams so it wont move then you start wrapping the belt around starting with the oil pump first. Once its all wrapped around and in place, all the timing marks should be dead on, put some tension on the belt by adjusting the tensioner pulley. Turn the crankshaft over six times clockwise and all the timing marks should still be dead on, then adjust the auto tensioner to specs.

here is a link from vfaq Timing Belt VFAQ

 

[1995GSTEclipse]

I have done ALL of that. I am trying to figure out if cam lobes have to be up/down in certain spots to be 100% sure timing is right? The head was decked and valves were reseated by shop. I did the timing and when I went to start it, there was no compression (exhaust was off 180 turn, I DO NOT KNOW WHY THERE ARE 2 TIMING MARKS ON EXHAUST GEAR!! CONFUSING!), then I tried to retime it after setting the exhaust to the right timing mark, and the crank will not go to TDC?? Car is out of gear, plugs are out, nothing in balance hole.

 

[Jeff99GS]

There should be 2 timing marks on each gear. There are 2 on the intake gear and 2 on the exhaust gear. These 4 marks have to line up with the heads surface. If they are angled up or down then they are wrong. So what you need to do is line the cams up with the dowel pins at 12 oclock. Then put a 17mm wrench on each cam gear center bolt. Pull the wrenches together till all 4 timing marks look straight and level with the head surface. Once you are in the right spot have a friend ziptie the wrenches together so they cannot move. There will be a slight springy feel to them. The wrenches will want to go away from each other due to the tension of the Valve springs. This tension is what causes most people to be off a tooth or 2 on their timing. They think they have the belt set right, when really its OFF a lil bit.

Here are 2 pics below. In the first pic the timing is OFF one tooth in both directions.

In the second pic the timing is right on the money.

In the 3rd pic I drew a line across all four timing marks to show that they are straight. You can use a ruler or a straight edge on your cam gears to check them!

 

[1995GSTEclipse]

OK, I have done this already but was off 180 on the exhaust the first time. What I am asking is :
1) My intake cam gear only has 1 mark that I can see, is this correct? (dont matter as long as both dowels are at 12)?

2) No matter how many times I turn the cam gears, as long as the pins are at 12 I am on timing? Or do the lobes of certain cyl's have to be oriented a certain way AND dowels be at 12?

The reason I am asking is because the head was taken off the block and machined and cams were taken out and then placed back in after the work was done. Normally when you take a belt off to replace it, the car is already timed (usually) but in my case everything was off.

For every one whole revolution of the cam gear, it is at cam center (dowels at 12 and aligned with TDC of piston 1 or 4)?

 

[boostd_mitsu]

It Doesn't Matter If Everything Was Off The Head Or Not, Just Have The Dowels Are At 12 And All The Other Markes Are Lined Up. To Make Sure It Doesn't Just When You Apply Tention, Have The Belt Tight On The Right Side Of The Belt. (ie. The Intake Cam And The Right Idler Pully Down To The Crank Pully)and When You Apply Tention All The Slack Will Be Taken Up On The Left Side (ie. The Exhaust Cam, Tentioner Pully And So On) I Hope This Makes Sence To You.

 

[1995GSTEclipse]

I have them both at 12 now but crank stops 1-2 teeth short of TDC????

I went ahead and pulled the head off today and found the bastard problem that was not letting me go to TDC. So now that is fixed, I put everything back together and crank it with NO turnover! It cranks, with spark and fuel but no start!? WTF?? If there is spark, fuel, and air, how is there no turnover??

 

[Jeff99GS]

It doesn't matter how many times you turn the cams. As long as you line them back up with the dowels at 12 o-clock you'll be fine.

There is 2 timing marks on your intake cam gear. Just look better. I like to take some white or yellow paint marker/chalk and mark the timing marks so you can see them better.

Are you are at top dead center? Pull the spark plugs out to make the engine easier to turn.

I sometimes put a long screwdriver down in the #1 spark plug hole. I will rotate the engine and watch the screwdriver. When It reaches its HIGHEST point before dropping back down you are at TOP DEAD CENTER

 

[Jeff99GS]

WTF?? If there is spark, fuel, and air, how is there no turnover??

Do you have compression? Post some pics of your timing belt set at TDC.

 

[1995GSTEclipse]

Well funny thing about the compression! I turned the crank with the 1/2" ratchet and it was not "hard" at certain spots when you hit the compression stroke, but I cant remember if I had the plugs out or not.... It cranks and you can hear the compression strokes but it wont fire up. I have no idea! I am going to do a leak down check tomorrow. Shop said the valves were fine when they did the head but i dont know. I might have messed them up when I had the exhaust cam off 180 and cranked it for a few seconds..? I tired of dumping $ into this and not getting anything fixed.

 

[1995GSTEclipse]

I have a head on the way. Should be here by this weekend. My exhaust valves were bent even before the head went to the machine shop! They did a valve job thinking they were not seating properly!