6bolt swap, won't start..air coming out of intake?

[Jman9912]

Hey guys, I just bought a 96 GST from a friend. This is my 4th one. There was a 6bolt swap done on the car before I got it but it never ran. Everything is hooked up and I was having trouble getting it to start. There was a problem with the alarm system or something so I jumped the starter relay..The car will turn over but it will not crank. It seems like it's trying, but as soon as it catches it stops and just keeps turning. The gauge lights go dim for a second but it just keeps turning over.

I got some starter spray and sprayed it in the intake and it seemed like when it was catching air was coming back out of the intake elbow. One time, I actually saw a flame shoot out..I'm guessing the starter fluid ignited...

I'm at a loss as what to do. I'm a little bit worried.

 

[David9er]

Hey guys, I just bought a 96 GST from a friend. This is my 4th one. There was a 6bolt swap done on the car before I got it but it never ran. Everything is hooked up and I was having trouble getting it to start. There was a problem with the alarm system or something so I jumped the starter relay..The car will turn over but it will not crank. It seems like it's trying, but as soon as it catches it stops and just keeps turning. The gauge lights go dim for a second but it just keeps turning over.

I got some starter spray and sprayed it in the intake and it seemed like when it was catching air was coming back out of the intake elbow. One time, I actually saw a flame shoot out..I'm guessing the starter fluid ignited...

I'm at a loss as what to do. I'm a little bit worried.

The Alarm may be disableing the ECU depending on how it is wired into the system, Try fixing, bypassing, or deleting the alarm and report back.

 

[Jman9912]

It's just the stock alarm. I'm pretty sure i can just pull the black box out and disable it. The car isn't here with me. I'll do that in the morning and see what happens. When I turn the key, I can't hear the fuel pump initialize but while its cranking i can hear it working.

 

[jukebois]

the engine might be out of timing. perform a compression test to determine condition.

 

[WES_393]

I'd guess that either your mechanical timing is off or you have bent valves. Like mentioned, do a compression test, check timing marks, and go from there.

 

[NHerron]

Jumping the starter relay does nothing for you if the ECU is not operating. No fuel and no spark. Starting fluid has a way low flash point, compression alone ignited it I'm sure. I would not use it on a known healthy engine, as damage is possible. Fuel pump only runs when the ECU sees the engine turning over via sensor.

 

[Wurrukatte]

compression test, check timing marks, clean injectors, plugs, plug wires, distributor's, fuel filter and fuel pump.
In that order off the top of my head.

 

[Jman9912]

Yeah, I guess I have a lot more things to go through. bent valve was my guess, but that pisses me off more than anything!

My friend got the car and blew the motor, he bought a rebuilt 6bolt from somebody on another DSM board...He took the car to a garage to have them put it in..Then they called him and told him the valves were bent...we were both like wtf..it's a freshly rebuilt motor. He paid 1100 for it. Anyways, he ended up paying 1800 for them to "swap the motor and get the car running" and apparently for new valves, etc.

So if the valves are REALLY bent then they didn't do anything and they must have messed something up themselves. They also stole the speakers/amp/cd player out of the car. It was stored in the back lot of the garage which has a very high fence with barbed wire. I've tried to steer everyone around here away from that garage since.

It just sucks now so i'm trying to put the pieces together so I can get the car running. I'm not brand new to the cars, but i'm definitely no expert. I've done a lot of repairs on my own, but even with simpler stuff, I get lost sometimes..Like this.

I didn't know the alarm controlled anything else. I thought it just disabled the starter. I guess that would make sense though.

Every time the driver door closes, it's locked. I have to turn the key in the door to open it. The starter will not engage unless i've jumpered the starter relay.

 

[Jman9912]

I figured out why it wasn't locking...I took the driver door panel off and the plastic was catching it. So I thought unlocking it with the key would have disabled the anti theft. But it didnt. I hooked the starter relay back up and I still get the clicking. When I jump the relay, it tries to turn over and then when it tries to actually start, it kind of jerks a little and the lights dim but the motor keeps turning...I just don't get it. It seems like it wants to start so bad but it won't.

And actually, I tried locking/unlocking the doors with the lock button on the driver door and it won't work. I hear a clicking at the starter relay.


This shit is SOOO frustrating. I hate inheriting other peoples problems and having no clue how to fix it. I read something on here saying that it can disable the MFI system too. I dont know if it has anything to do with the bolt motor or what...As far as I know, the car hasn't ever ran since the 6bolt was put in it. I've been searching on here trying to figure out how to disable the anti theft system but all i'm finding is contradicting information or people saying "WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DISABLE IT."

Does anybody have any ideas or know what I should do? I'm pretty sure that's what is causing this. Like I said, it is acting like it wants to start, but i'm thinking the fuel system has been disabled too...Like I said, the fuel pump doesn't initialize when I turn the key. It does however sound like it's pumping when i'm cranking it, but i'm not sure. I've got to get this car going ASAP as I have NOTHING to drive and the car is sitting at my friends house about 45 min from home...I'm over here now.

 

[NHerron]

Take the air filter off and while someone cranks, spray a shot of starting fluid in. If it fires now you know fuel needs looked into since there's spark.

A quick way to check if ignition system is disabled, disconnect the camshaft angle sensor, black top sensor on P/S of head and check for 5v on one of the pins. If no power then check the control circuit for MPI relay. Good luck.

 

[pacn91]

have to say +1 on the timing or bent valve. In many cases if you get a backfire through the intake then timing is off. If i remember correctly i would say thats usually timing that is too retarded. another idea, check firing order of the plug wires too

 

[F_27stryker1]

I might be way off here, but are the cams on the right firing order. I know the dowel pins are suppose to be up when at tdc on #1 cylinder

 

[Jman9912]

It also has dks 272 cams in it. not sure if that would make a difference

 

[Bergness08]

Plug wires could be wrong. 1 and 4 on 2 and 3.

 

[dsmspick]

Check plug wires they have to be in a certain order for the 6 bolt swap. Mine wouldn't start after 6 bolt swap and that was the issue.

 

[Jman9912]

I checked the firing order. I tried 4321 and 3214. Same exact thing. But I also noticed when it tries to start but then keeps cranking, I hear a hissing sound when it hesitates.

It has the black CAS and it looks like its spliced into the harness near the manifold and head. I don't know if anything was done to the ECU or not but it's a 96 ECU.

It does actually have a brand new head on it. The valves should be okay...

 

[untouchablecc]

Check the timing marks as mentioned, also make sure the cam sensor key way is lined up with the cam properly. There is a little dot on the end of the cam sensor and keyway that rotates that should line up. The car will not start if thats 180 degrees out. Also a boost leak test might reveal something. If you have any major boost leaks it also wont start. You can check and make sure your getting spark buy pulling each wire out 1 at a time and sticking a spark plug in the end and having someone crank over then engine while you look for an arc. It helps if you let it arc off the valve cover or something. Ghetto but it works. The fuel pumps do not prime like other cars from what I remember. They only flow during cranking not when turnining the key to the on position. You can also crack the bolt loose ontop of the fuel filter to see if your getting pressure. I had a hell of a time getting a this spyder to start that had a 1g cam sensor on it and it ended up being low fuel pressure from the smallest leak and the plug were so shot from trying to start it. Changed both and it fired right up. If your running a 96 ecu the firing order is almost always reversed.

 

[Mr4G]

Make sure your timing isnt 180 degrees out. That would make the intake valves open when the exhuast valves are supposed to.

 

[Jman9912]

Alright, i'll check these things when I can get back over there after christmas. Thanks guys. I've never dealt with a 6bolt at all, especially not one in a 2g. This car has been so frustrating but will be worth it when I finally get it running. rebuilt motor with a brand new head. Should hold up to some abuse .