6bolt rebuild

[staticbrainwash]

see thats thr problem, i don't have the space or the equiptment to do this myself. i've got a garage full of wood working stuff, and no hoist or engine stand.

so thats where im f-ed. ill check into machining on the rods. im glad to see it really isn't going to cost that much.

 

[dnhieu]

do you live next to a military base? the reason why i ask is because at tyndall afb where i live next to in panama city have a hobbie shop where they have all the tools, lift, and in my case help i can get . also here its like $3 dollars an hour to use the lift.

just an idea to help ya out

 

[MNGSX]

I'm doing most of the work myself on my rebuild. All but the machining was done by me. I have 1g rods and 2g pistons with balance shafts gone ARP everything and MLS hg. You'll save around $800-$1000 bucks if you do it yourself.

You have ARP rod and main bolts...

Add up rod bolt install, rod bolt cost and the necessary big end resize due to the bolts plus modifying for 2g pistons... $40 in rod bolts. $80 piston mod and another $80 on the big end resize.. = $200... Only $100 less than eagles.

A eagle wiseco forged shortblock does'nt cost that much more in comparison.

If you run wisecos and use a shop that knows how to hone them to the piston MFGs recomendation for side clearance via measuring at the skirt they will not have cold engine piston slap nor will they seize.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

You have ARP rod and main bolts...

Add up rod bolt install, rod bolt cost and the necessary big end resize due to the bolts plus modifying for 2g pistons... $40 in rod bolts. $80 piston mod and another $80 on the big end resize.. = $200... Only $100 less than eagles.

A eagle wiseco forged shortblock does'nt cost that much more in comparison.

If you run wisecos and use a shop that knows how to hone them to the piston MFGs recomendation for side clearance via measuring at the skirt they will not have cold engine piston slap nor will they seize.

I have 1g 7bolt rods. No machining was needed to fit the 2g pistons. Besides, $100 is not chump change for me my friend. I don't need that much rod for my goals.

 

[staticbrainwash]

mine are the 6bolt big rods. so i will need to machine the rods or go to aftermarket.

i guess my real question is, how hard would it be for a shop to install the forged pistons, obviously aftermarket rods are the same. but in terms of forged clearences, i don't want to have to run into problems with getting them to work right.

i also want the most reliable setup i can get. so if it's going to be a PITA to get the big rods to work ill go forged.

it's just hard for me to believe i guess that it's hard, with seeing how many people use the big rod setup.

all the input is helping guys, i get my money at the end of the week, so im going to be buying parts soon.

 

[staticbrainwash]

also, how good is stuff from partsdinosaur? i was looking on there and they've got 2g pistons with rings for like 145 bucks. and a mitsu front case/oilpump for 150.

thats some awesome frickin deals. any input on the best places for parts (good parts best price) would be cool too.

 

[MNGSX]

mine are the 6bolt big rods. so i will need to machine the rods or go to aftermarket.

i guess my real question is, how hard would it be for a shop to install the forged pistons, obviously aftermarket rods are the same. but in terms of forged clearences, i don't want to have to run into problems with getting them to work right.

i also want the most reliable setup i can get. so if it's going to be a PITA to get the big rods to work ill go forged.

it's just hard for me to believe i guess that it's hard, with seeing how many people use the big rod setup.

all the input is helping guys, i get my money at the end of the week, so im going to be buying parts soon.

Hi there, our recommended clearance is .003 clearance measured at the bottom of the skirt. Quite a few machine shops measure at 90 degrees from the wrist pin (common to several other manufacturers) and it can lead to problems. My personal observations are this. Seized Wiseco pistons at .003 are pretty rare due to most owners giving them a long (at least 500 miles) break in. For the guys going straight to the track or chassis dyno for an immediate beating, I'd recommend .004. The 500 miles gives the cylinder wall time to get familiar with the piston

If a customer has easy break in and still has problems, something like the machine shop issue listed above can usually be traced back. Overheating from air pockets in the cooling system sometime occur w/out the guage showing incorrectly, but that's pretty rare.

Forged pistons will almost always make more noise than cast, but to help compensate,-Wiseco offsets the wrist pins like the factory o.e. to allow the piston to "roll" up the cylinder wall instead of straight pinned pistons slapping the top land against the cylinder at rock-over at tdc.

Just print that and give it to the machinsist with the pistons.

 

[staticbrainwash]

alright, my money came in.

already i've picked up a set of 3rd gen lifters. horay for no more tick.

but i've run into a snag. im going to keep my big rods, but i don't know what pistons to get.

wiesco makes a few, and so does ross. any recomendations on brand?

also, im debating btwn 8.5:1 and 9:1 comp. any opinions or experience there would be awesome.

and last question. if i stay with the big rods, and get them magnafluxed and shotpeened, how long will they hold up with the forged pistons? cuz i've been noticing that a lot of motors you can buy in a "stage 1" category come with big rods and wiescos.

 

[DsMWookie]

Well for answer one I prefer wiseco very forgiving piston, higher silicone content which means less piston slap. Also this depends on your machine shop but they are what I would recommend.

I would spend the extra 300$ and get some eagle rods please for the love of god. For the amount of money spent on doctoring your factory rods you can get some eagle's or scat's for a little more and not be riding the limits of your factory rods.

I would stick with 8.5:1 compression (i believe wiseco's is 8.3:1 but dont quote me) This would allow a better pumpgas set up and a little less risk of detonation.

 

[staticbrainwash]

awesome, thank you. that helps a lot.

but now. . . eagle or scat? i hear good things about both.

but are there downfalls to either, warranty problems with either?

i just want to make sure im getting the best shit i can before i pound 2000 or 2500 bucks into this.

as for a recap of what im going to do.

manual turbo ecu (cuz im auto)
450cc's
rewierd fuelpump

stock spec head with new seals and 3g lifters, decked to mate with metal head gasket

eagle or scat rods
wiesco 8.5 (or 8.3)comp.
clevite berrings all around
balance shaft elim.
arp mains and head
2g manny and o2 housing (with some porting via me) and TB elbow
boost gauge and MBC ###### set to around 14 or 16

that's ###### going to break my bank but we'll see. thank you everyone for your help, and if anyone has anything more to add im more than happy to listen. or any other routes to go. i still have to talk to my mechanic about what all he thinks. if it comes down to it and he knows a real good machine shop i might just got big rods and 2g pist. still. but it all depends on the shop.

 

[Mike1992]

Pass on the ARP mains, you dont need them, but the rest of the list is top notch.

 

[dnhieu]

awesome, thank you. that helps a lot.

but now. . . eagle or scat? i hear good things about both.

but are there downfalls to either, warranty problems with either?

i just want to make sure im getting the best shit i can before i pound 2000 or 2500 bucks into this.

as for a recap of what im going to do.

manual turbo ecu (cuz im auto)
450cc's
rewierd fuelpump

stock spec head with new seals and 3g lifters, decked to mate with metal head gasket

eagle or scat rods
wiesco 8.5 (or 8.3)comp.
clevite berrings all around
balance shaft elim.
arp mains and head
2g manny and o2 housing (with some porting via me) and TB elbow
boost gauge and MBC ###### set to around 14 or 16

that's ###### going to break my bank but we'll see. thank you everyone for your help, and if anyone has anything more to add im more than happy to listen. or any other routes to go. i still have to talk to my mechanic about what all he thinks. if it comes down to it and he knows a real good machine shop i might just got big rods and 2g pist. still. but it all depends on the shop.

it seems like a pretty good list. you might want to add a 3 angle valve job to maximize power output and get better fuel economy. think the guy at carquest told me it was gonna cost like 125 bucks to do.

 

[staticbrainwash]

so im a little scared. . . i added up just the parts i listed. 1725 approximate cost.

thats not good news. thats without any gaskets or a front case or waterpump. and without a motor pull cost and machining. so im thinking im going to have to drop the aftermarket rods and pistons. go with 2g pistons on big rods. it's extreamely unfortunate that i cant pull the motor myself, or that'd ###### save my 500 or so.

anyway, are the pistons are parts dinosaur any good? i think the brand is ITM, if not ill just go to mistu and use a clubdsm discount. sorry i keep bouncing back and forth with all of this guys. i just want to make sure im getting the best shit i can for the best cost. and 800 bucks for rods and pistons just isn't going to cut it right now.

 

[Mike1992]

I went with the big rod/2g pistons combo also. slowboy is having a sale on 2g pistons for $200 or you can go with the ITM from parts dinosaur for $150. I have the ITM 2g pistons in my motor.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

anyway, are the pistons are parts dinosaur any good? i think the brand is ITM, .

I've just rebuilt with ITM brand (OEM spec) pistons and 3g lifters and the quality is just as good as the Mitsu stuff. Save yourself some moolah and hit up the Parts Dinosaur. I got my oil pump/ front case/timing belt/ tensioner/ idler pulleys from Mitsu though... I just don't trust those parts from anybody else.

 

[staticbrainwash]

yeah, i was assuming all i was going to pick up from partsdinosaur was the pistons.

everything else will be mistu. is there a good site for mitsu stuff, or should i just hit up a dealership? i've got one about half an hour away.

i am glad to hear about those pistons though, that means im saving myself A LOT.

in terms of stuff the machine shop should do, or tht i should ask them to do.

clean the block down, deck block and head, new seals in head and lifters. hone cyls and machine rods. should i have them magnaflux or shotpeen the rods?this is my frist rebuild ever, so i sincerely apologize for my lack of knowledge.

 

[boostedinaz]

I've just rebuilt with ITM brand (OEM spec) pistons and 3g lifters and the quality is just as good as the Mitsu stuff. Save yourself some moolah and hit up the Parts Dinosaur. I got my oil pump/ front case/timing belt/ tensioner/ idler pulleys from Mitsu though... I just don't trust those parts from anybody else.

So you trust a piston but not other parts from ITM or Topline?

Just get OEM 2G pistons and there won't ever be that little thing in the back of you mind. They really arent that much more and if you cant spend the money now then just wait. It will cost your more to have to pull it again if something goes wrong. Do it right, do it once.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

So you trust a piston but not other parts from ITM or Topline?

Actually yeah. I've seen Mitsu 2g pistons and ITM 2g pistons and they are basically identical. As for the timing belt, I have no idea how the rubber and other compounds compare with the Mitsu stuff. Also the machine shop I used is reputable and they thought the pistons were good to go.

Topline? I've read mixed reviews about them.

 

[dnhieu]

yeah, i was assuming all i was going to pick up from partsdinosaur was the pistons.

everything else will be mistu. is there a good site for mitsu stuff, or should i just hit up a dealership? i've got one about half an hour away.

i am glad to hear about those pistons though, that means im saving myself A LOT.

in terms of stuff the machine shop should do, or tht i should ask them to do.

clean the block down, deck block and head, new seals in head and lifters. hone cyls and machine rods. should i have them magnaflux or shotpeen the rods?this is my frist rebuild ever, so i sincerely apologize for my lack of knowledge.

balance and check the crankshaft,3 angle valve job, and i opted to have them pain the block while they were at it.

 

[staticbrainwash]

i think i've got a buddy who can get me at cost parts from mitsu, and then also the clubdsm discount. so this all might not be as bad as i thought.

i also think i just got my hands on an eprom 1g ecu for 200 bucks.

so yeah, i guess it's mitsu everything. minus the clevite berrings and arp headstuds. cool.

mechanic is on the list of people to call tomorrow, so i get the full 411 on motor pull and machine costs. ill keep in touch about that info.

 

[Mike1992]

http://www.mitsupartsdirect.com/

I bought my timing components there along with my head gasket cheap

 

[boostedinaz]

Actually yeah. I've seen Mitsu 2g pistons and ITM 2g pistons and they are basically identical. As for the timing belt, I have no idea how the rubber and other compounds compare with the Mitsu stuff. Also the machine shop I used is reputable and they thought the pistons were good to go.

Topline? I've read mixed reviews about them.

I have seen an XS Power 50 trim and a Green. They both look the same but the quality on one is far above the other. Just because parts "look" the same doesn't mean the materials used are as good or the quality control is the same.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

I have seen an XS Power 50 trim and a Green. They both look the same but the quality on one is far above the other. Just because parts "look" the same doesn't mean the materials used are as good or the quality control is the same.

Well then I guess you are right.
I suppose my engine is crapola now. I shall tear it down immediately and go with all OEM parts from now on.

 

[boostedinaz]

Well then I guess you are right.
I suppose my engine is crapola now. I shall tear it down immediately and go with all OEM parts from now on.

Thats all up to you. All I am pointing out is that people always want to go to one extreme or the other. They either want to rebuild there motor for 500.00 dollars and then put a 100k on it, or they want to build a 2.4 stroker with a stage 10 head, and forged mufflers just to run a low 13. 90% of the people on this board dont make enough HP or run fast enough to warrant there motor and turbo setup. All that is money thrown away that could have been used for more dyno time or some place else on the car.

 

[staticbrainwash]

a little more power with some possibility for more push out of it and reliability is what i want.

so if forking over a little more for mitsu direct parts will get me that reliability, thats the way im going to go.

as i said before, this rebuild is necessary for me. i drive it everyday and put on ###### 80 miles a day. couple that with me not having a job right now and yeah i need this baby to last.

im glad my 2g pist. decision isn't as bad as some people were saying. and in reality, my end goal for the car is only around 350 to 400 hp. which will take me a long time, so just having something to get me going in the right direction is what this is all about.

so mitsu everything it is. ill get everything cleaned to all hell and add a few 2g bolt ons (manny, o2 housing and tb elbow) and hopefully have a little left over for a custom catback.