6bolt rebuild

[staticbrainwash]

alright folks, im planning on a rebuild. it's about damn time, i've got leaking valve seals, and berrings that are beinging to weaken.

here's what im planning.

my stock 6bolt big rods (if the check out ok) if not, pick up new ones.
2g pistons at 8.5 comp.
clevite berrings for everything
balance shaft elim.
kevlar timing belt.
knife edge crank

Head:
new valve seals
replacement of anything bent or messed up
possibly swirl polished valves, and bronze guides.
stock springs and retainers
possibly a little P&P work.

i've got about 2 grand maybe a little more to work with. so how does that sound to everyone. anything i should put in place of anything i've got listed? or anything else i should do? any sites i should specifically check out for parts, i 've been looking around but everything seems to be quite spread out.

also, if i up compression, and run my 14b upgrade on my auto, should i do some fuel mods? i've already planned to get the manual 1g ecu, and 450 injectors and do a fuel pump rewire.

sorry about the long post, but i wanted to make sure everything was copesetic before i undertake this adventure. thanks you everyone

 

[Mike1992]

Im in the middle of a build much like yours. http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196439 In the end I expect have have nearly $2400 top to bottom. With needed bolt ons (clutch, prothane motor mounts)

I got some things from
partsdinosaur.com
extremepsi.com
mitsupartsdirect.com
ebay.com
and my local auto parts store where I use my buddies discount.

 

[dnhieu]

arp head studs, and pollyurathane motor mounts. you should also get 2g pistons. you can pick them up for cheap and the hp gains would probably be worth the extra money.

hope that helps
david

 

[staticbrainwash]

yeah, i planned on using the 2g pistons. but i was worried weather or not ill have to do fuel mods.

mike, how much extra work have you put into the head and block.

cuz other than clevite berrings and 2g pistons im thinking im gonna leave it pretty much stock.

 

[dnhieu]

sorry about that. 2g use 450cc injectors and they run fine on stock boost. i would get the 450's soon and put a logger on it to see how much boost you can run

david

 

[staticbrainwash]

shit, good call. . . thats going on the list too.

so other than motor im going to need, a logger, manual 1g ecu, 450's, prothane mounts, boost gauge and MBC. . .

damn, this is adding up real fast.

 

[Mike1992]

mike, how much extra work have you put into the head and block.

Like alot of people im on a budget, so that limits what i can do unless i wanna wait a few extra weeks to get it running. Im pretty much gonna have a 2g piston/1g big rod bottom end, no balance shafts, fully balanced. (<-Already done) MLS head gasket, arp rod bolts and head studs. For the head I want some stiffer springs for when I goes cams in the future, but thats not ooking good at the moment because moneys so tight and gas is $3 a gallon So most likely a stock head, maybe crower springs and retainers. (Cams come later) All I got left to buy is prothane motor mounts, SBR 3500 Clutch, and have my head rebuilt and then im ready for drop in.

 

[staticbrainwash]

i think to keep it simple, and cheap, which is the key, im going to leave the head totally stock.

just rebuild what need to.

do my shit in the block, and go with motor mounts, the ecu (which if anyone has would be awesome, i need a 92 manual turbo), 450's, logger, gauge and MBC.

hopefully keeping the cost under 2000. really, the only reason i wanna do this is to stop my oil consumption and maybe pull a little out of the motor with the 2g pistons and simple fuel mods.

any help with parts for the fuel stuff would be nice. or cheap (well working) boost gauge would be cool, and i'd even take a used (again very well working) logger.

 

[Batty200]

For the cost of having 2G pistons and 1g rods machined to work together plus a new ring set for the 3G pistons you should just buy a set of wiseco pistons. They are only 375 from summit and they are forged and can be had in 8:1 or 8.8:1 and they are FAR superior to stock 2G pistons.


Later

 

[dnhieu]

how do you guys do it on a 2k budget? mike1992 i just seen the pics of your engine and damn thats clean. hope mine looks the same. i added up the total of what my engine is gonna cost and its between 5k to 5.5k. from what it looks like im not doing much more then you guys.

we should keep posted on this post on our progress. i just started disassembling my N/A motor earlier today and will buy a engine stand later tonight to go ahead and take the head off.

thanks
david

 

[dnhieu]

i think to keep it simple, and cheap, which is the key, im going to leave the head totally stock.

just rebuild what need to.

do my shit in the block, and go with motor mounts, the ecu (which if anyone has would be awesome, i need a 92 manual turbo), 450's, logger, gauge and MBC.

hopefully keeping the cost under 2000. really, the only reason i wanna do this is to stop my oil consumption and maybe pull a little out of the motor with the 2g pistons and simple fuel mods.

any help with parts for the fuel stuff would be nice. or cheap (well working) boost gauge would be cool, and i'd even take a used (again very well working) logger.

hey man list the stuff you need. after i bought the motor im left just throwing alot of it away if i cant give them to you for the shipping cost.

thanks
david

 

[staticbrainwash]

sorry to ressurect an old thread, but i got approved for my rebuild money.

i got 2500 to spend. so here is my more set plan.

head:
stock, new valve seals, maybe bronze guides.
decked for use with metal HG

Block:
1g stock big rods, maybe scat's.
2g 8.5comp pistons
clevite berrings all around
arp hardware.
balance shaft elim.
new front case
all new gaskets ect.

misc.:
poly motor mounts
2g o2 housing
2g exh. manny
2g throttle body elbow
boost gauge, and mbc
pocketlogger
450cc's
1g manual turbo ecu

cheap:
battery relocation
fuel pump rewire

thats the plan, basically keeping internals simple and putting more of my money into opening up the system and taking care of shit i couldn't do before.

so how does that look to everyone? im hoping itll be in my price range and from pricing things out it looks like it's going to.

 

[dnhieu]

i wouldnt get scat rods unless your wanting to get forged pistons also. the stock 1g rods can handle 400hp plus

 

[supravw]

how do you guys do it on a 2k budget? mike1992 i just seen the pics of your engine and damn thats clean. hope mine looks the same. i added up the total of what my engine is gonna cost and its between 5k to 5.5k. from what it looks like im not doing much more then you guys.

we should keep posted on this post on our progress. i just started disassembling my N/A motor earlier today and will buy a engine stand later tonight to go ahead and take the head off.

thanks
david

How is your budget so high?! I'm going to do a full rebuild and it's going to cost less then a grand. Clevites, arp rod and main (already have head), head rebuild + maybe p&p, block cleaned and whatever else needed, copper hg, new rings, catch can, timing and idler pulley (timing belt is new-less then 500 on it). While I'm all apart I'm putting a new throwout bearing in and ACT 2600 if I don't have one already (I'm not sure if I do or not). Also eliminating balance shafts and sandblasting and shaving the valvecover so I can paint it. While the engine is being cleaned and rebuilt I'm repainting the car a metallic silver and installing a rollcage. Hope I can finish this is less then 2 months.

 

[dnhieu]

How is your budget so high?! I'm going to do a full rebuild and it's going to cost less then a grand. Clevites, arp rod and main (already have head), head rebuild + maybe p&p, block cleaned and whatever else needed, copper hg, new rings, catch can, timing and idler pulley (timing belt is new-less then 500 on it). While I'm all apart I'm putting a new throwout bearing in and ACT 2600 if I don't have one already (I'm not sure if I do or not). Also eliminating balance shafts and sandblasting and shaving the valvecover so I can paint it. While the engine is being cleaned and rebuilt I'm repainting the car a metallic silver and installing a rollcage. Hope I can finish this is less then 2 months.

if you MUST request a list.

eagle rods
ross pistons
mitsu metal head gasket
arp EVERYTHING
clevie rod and main bearings
oil cooler
oil pump
water pump
timing belt kit
ported head and 3 angle valve job
pf2 cams
crower springs and retainers
spec stage 3 clutch
machine work
blah blah blah

way too much to list
i started only wanting a little and its become a big list

 

[staticbrainwash]

so ill stick with the stock rods then. should i get them shot peened or anything?

realistically, should i be looking to do rods and forged pistons, or am i going to get enough from the 1grods and 2g pistons for now?

shit, if i could spend even 1500 on all this i would die. then i could rebuild my tranny too. or do exhaust. . . or nice suspension.

oh the options. . .

 

[dnhieu]

i wouldnt do anything half ass man. it will hit you one day im rebuilding because everything is just going wrong with the motor and i want to start fresh. im very lucky to have this money for my rebuild or i would be looking to do your path. in your case you have to draw a line somewhere to stop . other wise your all of a sudden lookin like me with 5k worth of parts you want to buy.

hope that helps man

 

[boostedinaz]

Man how do some of you spend so much on motors.

I have a fresh motor 1100 on it now and the ENTIRE THING from top to bottom was about 2K.

Fresh head to stock specs.
2G pistons on 1G rods.
Full Mistsu gasket set.
New front cover.
Misc. hoses, lines, water pump, and so on.

Original poster you don't need a knife edged crank. It will be cool to tell people that but at the power levels you will run you wont notice any performance gain. Well, perhaps a bit because your wallet will be lighter so you may trap a bit more.

Also don't give into the trendy people on the site. Be realistic with your goals and build accordingly. Most will tell you to go with forged battery cables, you know just in case. After you spend a good 5k on a motor you wont have any money to actually mod it to its full potential. So you will be like most with a 14B or a 16G on a fully forged motor running 13's. I know I will go faster and quicker than most people with a crazy stoker and big turbo, on my old school half assed motor.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Most will tell you to go with forged battery cables, you know just in case.

Don't forget the bead blasted powdercoated knock sensor and diamond studded triple chromed sodium filled titanium plated hood latch.

 

[MNGSX]

Just get a crank checked and micropolished... If it needs to be ground get another or have it renitrided. Usually on a 2.0 the cranks are common enough that finding another to poilish up is cheaper than a grind and nitride.

Then have it balanced by itself... The way a internal balance 4 is supposed to be done. A local race shop charges $25 to balance a 4 banger crank.

Look at how narrow the counterweights are. On a 10sec under car geting it edged makes more sense but they are pretty streemlined to begin with. have you seen a 4G63 crank next to a SBC or something.

Get eagle rods and wiseco pistons... By the time you d*&% around with fitting 2gs on 1g rods, upgrading rod bolts and reconditioning and balancing them its a small difference in price. Plus its almost race balanced due to the aftermarket rods being weight matched and the wiseco piston weight consistency.

Always run ARP head bolts but only run stock mains if its a higher power motor.


I dont run a new front cover unless the pump ate the cover...

I have it jet cleaned like a head and inspect the pump.. If the gear to case side clearance on the pump is loose I have the rear part of the pump milled to tighten it up. I also slightly round the edges of the teeth... Where the gear side meets the teeth side at a 90... Just enough to dull them and reduce wear at the point they touch the aluminum...

I really think most covers are just fine.... I have seen some that should come back as pop cans but most of the time its an expensive part to be buying and easier to freshen up than an alternator...

I like the SCE ICS Titan headgasket...

Use a topline engine gasket set less the HG... I mean how many gaskets do we really have? No pan gasket! etc....

pistons and rods are the last place I skimp....

If you have a kevlar T-belt, race head, cams and intake on a engine with a new cast bottom end its pretty stupid right?

 

[boostedinaz]

If you have a kevlar T-belt, race head, cams and intake on a engine with a new cast bottom end its pretty stupid right?

I think having any of those on a car that will maybe see low 12's is stupid especially when it is on a forged bottom end.

 

[MNGSX]

I have shopped around and can nip at the heels of a oe cast engine with a forged bottom pricewise all other things equal...

 

[staticbrainwash]

so if going to new rods and forged pistons is comprable to getting everything in check for the big rod 2g piston combo. why are people doing the combo.

how much is it really to do everything for the big rod setup? cuz right now it's looking at something around 800 for rods and pistons otherwise. and thats either scat or eagle rods, and wiesco ross or manley pistons.

i guess this is my last hitch. forged setup, or big rod setup? my goal is for somewhere in the relm of 350hp. and that will prolly take a long time. im just happy to have a car i can play with.

as for everyone who's done rebuilds, are you doing the motor pull disassembly and everything yourselves? cuz i can't, thats why im assuming things are going to get pricey.

 

[boostedinaz]

Here we go with more forged battery cables and stage 9 million head.

He already has a 6 bolt with bog rods, much like I did. All the people that say it is so expensive to get the pistons machined usually never even check they just assume it will be expensive because some guy on the internet said so. When I had it done it was only 20.00 a piston. So I have free rods, 80.00 in machine work and, with my local discount, 250.00 for pistons and rings. All together that is 330.00. Or I could get laughed at for trying to find just a set of pistons or rods for that amount let alone the combo. Even if he had to buy big rods they can be had cheap. In a 3 second search I just found a few ads for 1G rods all the way from best offer to a set that already has 2G pistons on them for 400.00.

They have time and time again help up to 400 AWHP and you don't have to worry as much about the accuracy of the machinist as you do with forged parts. I have heard forged cars start up and sound like a rod is going to come through the block. Cast pieces are a bit more forgiving and just like anything else tunning is key. I have seen all forged motors with less than 500 miles take a big fat expensive shit because of tunning so they are by no means a safety net.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

as for everyone who's done rebuilds, are you doing the motor pull disassembly and everything yourselves? cuz i can't, thats why im assuming things are going to get pricey.

I'm doing most of the work myself on my rebuild. All but the machining was done by me. I have 1g rods and 2g pistons with balance shafts gone ARP everything and MLS hg. You'll save around $800-$1000 bucks if you do it yourself.