6 bolt vs. 7 bolt [merged] 6bolt 7bolt 6-bolt 7-bolt six bolt seven bolt

[asdfzxc]

All 6 bolt vs. 7 bolt threads are merged here.
How do I tell if I have a 6 bolt or a 7 bolt?
Will x part from a 6 bolt fit a 7 bolt?
Will x part from a 7 bolt fit a 6 bolt?
Which one is better?
How do I swap my x bolt for an x bolt?

What is the difference between 6-bolt and 7-bolt engines (aside from the obvious - 6 vs. 7 bolts connecting the flywheel )

Is there an advantage over either of the two engines?

Thanks,

-Mike

 

[FullBoostRacing]

Ok Brian Crower is having a sale on the 2.4 stroker kits so I am going to take the plunge.

Part #: BC0108
STROKER KIT (Mitsubishi 4G63 - 7 bolt, 102mm Stroke Billet Crank, Pro Series Rods, Custom Pistons)

"Stroker kit featuring BC 4340 steel billet crankshaft, Pro Series 4340 steel billet rods, custom, premium quality pistons with pins, rings and locks."

$4110.00 now $3240.00

So I currently have a 94 GS Turbo 6 Bolt and the Brian Crower is a 7 bolt crank.... So will it fit in my 6 bolt block? I know I have to bore the block to 86mm to get the 102mm crank to work but will I hit any other issues with my 6 bolt block?

Thanks

 

[delta448]

So I currently have a 94 GS Turbo 6 Bolt and the Brian Crower is a 7 bolt crank.... So will it fit in my 6 bolt block? I know I have to bore the block to 86mm to get the 102mm crank to work but will I hit any other issues with my 6 bolt block?

Thanks

Are you saying you have a 94 DSM with a 6 bolt swap?
Only the 7 bolt was used after 92. ?

Also, you do not have to bore the block to use the stroker crank. Boring is only recommended if the block is in bad enough shape that a simple cylinder hone won't fix it.

 

[FullBoostRacing]

Are you saying you have a 94 DSM with a 6 bolt swap?
Only the 7 bolt was used after 92. ?

Also, you do not have to bore the block to use the stroker crank. Boring is only recommended if the block is in bad enough shape that a simple cylinder hone won't fix it.

Yes I did a 6 bolt swap... Sorry should have cleared that up

I C so the 102mm size will be fine in the 6 bottom end?

Thank You

 

[snox135]

No, you can not use the 7bolt crank in a 6 bolt block.

 

[delta448]

I am unsure if it's possible to run a 7 bolt crank in a 6 bolt block.

The 102mm length will require that you clearance the block. I believe it's the #3 rod that has interference with the mains, but since you're going to use a 102mm instead of the 4G64 100mm, you may have additional clearance issues.

 

[FullBoostRacing]

Ok cool that's what I needed to know, so I wonder why they made a 7 bolt crank. You would think there would be a bigger market for the 6 bolt crank. With the 7 bolt blocks crankwalking and all

Thanks for your help

 

[Splitpi]

Ok cool that’s what I needed to know, so I wonder why they made a 7 bolt crank. You would think there would be a bigger market for the 6 bolt crank. With the 7 bolt blocks crankwalking and all

Thanks for your help

Could be why they are on sale. But there are quite a few 7-bolt 2.4 cranks available for making the stroker... hence it may be "easier" or "cheaper" to make the kit. But I won't get into the crankwalk issue as it has been beat to death and mileage varies ...

 

[FullBoostRacing]

But I won't get into the crankwalk issue as it has been beat to death ...

Agreed

 

[crazy_skier]

well I say if you want it swap a 7 bolt back in... not trying to start a c/w deal here but c/w is WAY over-rated... and half of the people who claim to have it dont even measure their crank tolerances so they may not have even had it

 

[FullBoostRacing]

well I say if you want it swap a 7 bolt back in... not trying to start a c/w deal here but c/w is WAY over-rated... and half of the people who claim to have it dont even measure their crank tolerances so they may not have even had it

Well I still have a 7 bolt in my 2G GSX so I guess if I was going to do that I might as well just drop it in there. I just blocked it out of my mind because I would hate to buy it, have it god forbid do the so called crank walk thing, then me in denial it could be crank walk and blame the Brian Cower kit and be out all kinds of money..

But if it worked it sounds fun...

 

[delta448]

Why not just buy a used G4CS or 4g64 shortblock? I bought a complete 103k mile 4G64 that I'm currently tearing down and hopefully will be building soon, for $300 on ebay.

If you're that worried about crankwalk, why not use one of those instead? Crankwalk is almost unheard of in those engines. For the cash you are planning to spend on the Crower kit you could buy, machine, and rebuild a non-stroker 2.4L, slap on your 4G63 head and with possibly enough money left over for a larger, more appropriate turbo.

 

[FullBoostRacing]

Why not just buy a used G4CS or 4g64 shortblock? I bought a complete 103k mile 4G64 that I'm currently tearing down and hopefully will be building soon, for $300 on ebay.

If you're that worried about crankwalk, why not use one of those instead? Crankwalk is almost unheard of in those engines. For the cash you are planning to spend on the Crower kit you could buy, machine, and rebuild a non-stroker 2.4L, slap on your 4G63 head and with possibly enough money left over for a larger, more appropriate turbo.

I thought about doing that as well, but I have been having a hard time finding a 4G64 or a G4CS block to buy. Everyone I find who has one does not want to ship it because of the weight even though I am offering to pay for shipping... grrrr...

I did find a G4CS block the other day but am confused as I see from other post you have to block some oil holes on it or something like that. If I could get a clear answer as to what kind of prep work has to be done on the G4CS vs. the 4G64 then I might do it if it's still available...... Anyone have a spare 4G64 lying around???

Thanks

 

[Cs4g63]

Both of these guys have a good write up on the 4g64. They are very informative.
http://www.carotica.com/4g64/index.html
http://www.extremeevolutions.com/

 

[Splitpi]

You really only want the crank from the from the 4g64 inorder to make the 2.3L 4g63 good for low RPM power

Or you can take the 4g64 block, throw in the 2.0L 4G63 crank and you get 2.1L 4G64 good for high RPM power.

Of course you need special rods and pistons to do either. Or you could get really crazy get a new mortgate on your house to afford your habit and build both motors by buying a 4G64 and using your stock 2.0L 4G63 and swapping cranks on both motors and building a 2.1L 4G64 and 2.3L 4G63.

 

[FullBoostRacing]

Thanks Cs4g63 I have come across those sites before but that is real good info none the less.

Now that I have a good idea of what I am getting into I am just going to do a quick recap.

I would prefer to have a 4G64 or G4CS with a 6 or 7 bolt crank (cw is not an issue on 2.4block?) to get a true 2.4

If I can not find a 2.4 block by the time I am ready to do this I can take my 6 bolt block and put a 6 bolt 2.4 crank and get special rods and pistons to get a 2.3, right?

The 2.1 is just not my style so scrap that...

Thanks

 

[Cs4g63]

No problem.
I myself, after doing a lot of research, decided to go the 2.4 route. I just picked up a 4g64 this week as a result of a lot of junkyard hunting.

 

[FullBoostRacing]

No problem.
I myself, after doing a lot of research, decided to go the 2.4 route. I just picked up a 4g64 this week as a result of a lot of junkyard hunting.

Lucky %@#%..... If you come across another one please let me know.

Thanks

 

[FullBoostRacing]

I just searched and could not locate it, does anyone have a link to that post where there is list all the vehicles that have a 6 bolt 2.4L and 7 Bolt 2.4L engines? It will help my junk yard search.

Thanks

 

[delta448]

I thought about doing that as well, but I have been having a hard time finding a 4G64 or a G4CS block to buy. Everyone I find who has one does not want to ship it because of the weight even though I am offering to pay for shipping... grrrr...

If you find an engine somewhere and shipping is an issue, try www.uship.com. It's a site where you can post the details about what you want shipped and recieve bids from independant haulers and freight shipping companies. My 4G64 cost $200 when it was shipped from Michigan, including the insurance and cost to have the shipper load and unload it for me with a liftgate and pallete jack.

I did find a G4CS block the other day but am confused as I see from other post you have to block some oil holes on it or something like that. If I could get a clear answer as to what kind of prep work has to be done on the G4CS vs. the 4G64 then I might do it if it's still available...... Anyone have a spare 4G64 lying around???

Thanks

The G4CS shouldn't have the holes in the deck that need plugged like the 4G64.
Scroll down this page for a list of vehicles equipped with a 4G64.

If I can not find a 2.4 block by the time I am ready to do this I can take my 6 bolt block and put a 6 bolt 2.4 crank and get special rods and pistons to get a 2.3, right?

The 2.1 is just not my style so scrap that...

Thanks

6 bolt 2.4s are quite a bit harder to find. I agree about the 2.1, it's not my style either, especially when you want to end up with a street driven car. How often does anyone with an ounce of maturity or common sense rev to 10,000rpm on the street? -IMO, high rpm fun usually means a lot of head work and lightweight but strong (read: expensive) engine parts and a good autocross track.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

To make a long story short, A friend drove my car and shattered my #3 piston and sent the #3 rod through my block. We have agreed to go half and half on a motor or components to fix it.

I do have access to all automotive tools and mechanics. My friends owns his owm shop.
We have never did a 6 bolt swap, but could be fairly easy, he has modified customers cars as well as his own. Removing the engine will be fairly easy. But doing the swap how difficult and how much time will it take to do? Were not looking to rush, just figure its possible to close the shop and 2-3 of us will attempt to do it in one night (with the 7 bolt already removed). I have searched VFAQ and here for the FAQ on the swap but all the links with in the thread are dead. Can they be refreshed or someone give give me a differenet link to a complete FAQ, picutres would even be more greatful. Would a 1g head be better or a 2g head better on the 6 bolt? The only I can take from the FAQ is that I WILL NEED A 1g CAS, i've seen a few forsale but they have different colors which is stressed in their advertisement forsale. Which color should I get? What other mod sshould I do while the motor is out? Besides clutch and flywheel? Now since its 6 bolt what is the recomended street friendly clutch that will handle well on the drag strip? Also am I better of getting the stock flywheel milled or getting an aftermarket one? Any recomendations?

7 bolt ?'s: Just the bottom end is shot. I have access forged internals for the 7 bolt for $400 and probably get get them cheaper. Car King (on ebay) has successfully claimed to elminate crankwalk. It is cost efficient to do this myself or not.

The 6 bolt motor, that I am possibley getting has less then 20,000miles on the complete rebuild! Can't remember the combo but I think its 1g Rods on 2g pistons (or other way around). BS removed and ARP head studs. $600 firm! Now how much hp is this set-up capable of? On the FAQ's it quoted the stock 6 bolt to handle 450hp, but what about this set-up? Since the motor is already out, I am thinking about forged internals, if they can be had at the right price along with a worked block. Is there any need to modify the crank, if I find a .2 worked block with internals?

If I am missing anything or a little vague, please execuse and chime in, I have not had a good nights sleep since the day it happened (Saturday). I've spent 7 months putting this car together, here I am again.

 

[John_GST]

7 bolt ?'s: Just the bottom end is shot. I have access forged internals for the 7 bolt for $400 and probably get get them cheaper. Car King (on ebay) has successfully claimed to elminate crankwalk. It is cost efficient to do this myself or not.

The claim by car king is false, unless he can prove that his Internals eliminate crank walk (Im assuming he doesn't show any numbers of cars that have been completely cured of C.W.). As I know it there is no cure for crankwalk because it can happen to any engine (yes even 6 bolt) Im sure you know that any engine can crank walk since your friend owns his own shop and all. Car King's internals might be able to help with the all to well known crank walk syndrome, but I very highly doubt that it can completely eliminate it. So your best bet is to not believe his claims and go with a six bolt engine. The six bolt will not assure that you will never crankwalk again, but you deffinately have a little more assurance.

And for a side note Im not trying to knock on E-bay stuff because I know that the right things from the right people are fairly good things and would buy from them faster than I would a big name brand. Im just stateing that there is no known cure for crank walk and you can't trust someone who doesn't have any real numbers or known tests to back it up.

I hope this helps your decision foreverfalcon.

John_GST

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

I just closed the deal on 6 bolt. Whole block including head and all accessories was done rebuilt by Gary from Mitsubishi Graveyard less then 20,000 miles ago. It has no BS and comes with 1g Big Rods on 2g pistons.

Should I hot coat and sharpen the block and internals? What HP am I expecting to max out with this engine the way it is vs. the work being done? What color CAs should I get? Better off with a milled flywheel or aftermarket?

Of course, I iwlll be porting my 02 housing to elminate boost creep. (Just remembered) Am I missing anything else?

 

[hereitcomes]

Well I have not had a problem with my black top CAS and aftermarket flywheels are always going to be a better choice becuase of their materials and rev capabilities. But they are more expensive.

 

[Foreverfalcon40]

Ok so I did some researching, I am going to do the following and purchase the following:

Port 02 stock housing to 3in and get it ceramic coated
Get manifold cermic coated
Get down pipe ceramic coated
Clean up engine bay
Pull turbo and get the wastegate flapper door opened
BUY BLACK TOP CAS (its more accurate)
BUY 6-Bolt Findanza Flywheel
BUY Solid 2g Poly Motor Mounts

I have the XS power HUGE FMIC kit, since the 1g TB is bigger, check to see it it matches the Elbow bracket, if not port to match

Is it worth to get a lightened pulley?

I still need a updated FAQ on the swap with lots of pictures AND ANY OTHER RECOMENDATIONS WILL BE APPRECIATED!

 

[greengoblin]

Here are some sites to help you. Just in case you have not been to them.
Sign up for this group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSM1gina2g/

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/tech/index.htm

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm

This is info from Justin DuBois

Sorry it hard to read. Shoot me your e-mail and I can forward the original message to you.

What do I need to put a 1G/JDM 6-bolt short block into my Manual Trans Turbo 2G?================================================================================ For a Short Block replacement, keeping all else 2G and stock; You will need a COMPLETE 6 Bolt short block with pan, from flywheel to thetiming belt cover. The 1G timing belt cover will need to be modified toaccommodate the 2G motor mount. The flywheel type will need to matched yourmanual trans type, AWD or FWD. All DSM clutch are the same, AWD FWD 7Bolt and 6Bolt. One bolt on the front of the transmission will not have a place to thread intothe 6 bolt block, and is usually backed up with a nut. 2G Starter/transmission alignment plate.2G motor mount (modified to fit 1G water pump)2G Alt2G AC compressor mounting bracket and compressor2G water pump pulleys2G PS pump bracket mount and 2G PS bracket 1G or 2G crank pulley1G or 2G Dip stick tube and stick. Use 2G sensors to go with your 2G ECU;TPS, Knock, Water Temp for ECU, Water Temp Gauge, Oil Pressure switch for theidiot light, Oil pressure sender for the gauge, and O2 sensors. The oil filter assembly should match the type of cooler you are going to use.91'-92.5' were 6-bolt and water/oil cooled. The water pipe and water neck will be 2G to match the 2G head, so the plumbingwill be all set to feed a Water/Oil type oil cooler. Save the 2G oil supplylines for the cooler, and your turbo setup. The 2G head will need to have the head stud holes made bigger to accommodate the6-Bolt head studs. The 2G crank signal will have to be replaced with a simulated Crank signal froma 1G CAS. (See the RRE 1G CAS info pages)Http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm You will need to build/buy a wiring harness for it. Be prepared to buy DSMLink and 95-E-Prom ECU if your Stock ECU is unhappy withthe simulated Crank signal. Its the only viable solution to eliminating falseRandom Misfire detection if the problem occurs. ================================================================================What if I also have a 1G head?================================================================================ Use a;1G intake manifold. 1G water neck with the radiator cap.1G thermostatlate 1G coil pack Make a custom TB elbow for your late 1G or 2G TB. The EGR system can be disabledor you can plumb a 2G map sensor and appropriate vacuum lines to a 2G EGR valve. See EGRhose.gif in the files section - http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm1gina2g/vwp?.dir=/EGR&.dnm=EGRhose.gif Make a bracket to mount the 2G injector resistor pack to the 1G intake manifold. The shifter counter weight on the transmission is typically cut off to make roomfor the lower radiator hose with a 1G water pipe. Water pipe, and oil filter assembly selection will depend what oil cooler youdecide to use. 1G or 2G water/oil cooler uses a 91'-92.5' 1G water pipe with water fittingsand a 91'-92.5' oil filter housing. 1G/after market air/oil coolers uses a 90' 1G water pipe without water fittings and a 90' 1G oil filter housing with an air/oil cooler in three possibleflavors: 1. Aftermarket air/oil cooler with custom hoses and custom mounting2. 90' 1G factory oil cooler with factory hoses and custom mounting3. 97+ automatic transmission fluid cooler with factory hoses, a 97+ front bumper with ducting and factory mounting hardware. ================================================================================How do I get rid of the Random Misfire studder and check engine light?================================================================================ RM (Random Misfire)The ECU is flagging a misfire condition because the cranksensor which originally drove the hyper accurate signal for the 2G ECU has nowbeen replaced and simulated by the not so accurate 1G CAS. The only remediesfor this symptom once you have it is: 1. Start over again and do it the original RRE way by modding the oil pump caseand keep the crank signal. RRE does not do it this way anymore, so why wouldyou? 2. Wire in a potentiometer on the barometric sensor wire going to theECU,thereby fooling the ECU into thinking you are at very high elevation (lowbarometric pressure) so it doesn't check for RM. This sounds simple, but if youdon't tune the engine to compensate for the additional timing, you will end upturning your piston's to goo which also kills your turbo. (Not a recommendedfix) 3. Cutting the TPS sensor wire. This actually appears to work for somepeople,but since TPS is useful for data logging and tuning, its not a good longterm fix. This may also effect engine performance during times when the ECU usesrapid changes in throttle position. 4. Buying DSMLink and clicking a tiny little checkbox which basically disablesthe ECU logic that checks for RM. ================================================================================Is there a step by step set of instructions on how to do the swap?================================================================================ You are looking at them. Step by step instructions have their value in this world for some things, but Idon't think this is one if them. There are too many variable. JDM motors, forexample, have lots of different water necks and intake manifolds depending onwhat car they came out of. Some people want to use 2G heads and water necks,some people have Big FAT turbo's with external WG etc etc etc.. If you are smart enough to do the swap, you don't need my step by stepinstructions. Please see a reputable speed shop (preferably one that actuallyraces cars and stands behind their work) if you want this kind of work doneright. Justin