6-bolt swap questions (pics)

[97redgsx]

ok ill start off by telling you all that i have read alot into this subject and i have gathered few things to always be held true about a 6-bolt into a 2g car: 1: the engine mount must be modified 2: you must rewire your cam angle sensor and crank sensor 3: you should have dsm link to get rid of random misfire codes.

ok so heres my question. the 6 bolt motor i have came out of a 2nd gen car. well at least im pretty sure it is a six bolt....i mean there are 6 bolts holding the flywheel on...as seen here:

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now i have noticed that the motor does not have the "notch" in the motor mount to allow for clearance on the water pump. heres a pic of the timing side of the motor:

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im not sure, maybe its is some combination of 1g and 2g parts.... and i am sure it came out of a 2nd gen car, i removed it myself....my main concern is that maybe the last person who worked on it may have put 2g parts on without the proper modification....

any and all input is welcome...thanks!

 

[Lunch_Box]

If the person didn't knotch the engine mount bracket there would be no way that the water pump could bolt to the block.

 

[hopwoodp]

Things look ok so far. Double check on roadraceengineering.com 's 1gina2g page. You'll see what they are talking about. Another thing to realize is that the hyd. tensioner arm and pulley from a 2g will need to be modded slighly (as per RRE 1gina2g page) but, some people will use the 1g arm and pulley instead(what I did) and things work fine. Go ahead and check out what roadrace engineering has and also go to the magnus motorsports page on the subject, in their tech section. If you got anymore questions let us know.

 

[primalfear600]

this motor was already mounted and used in a 2g car, however somehow he managed to destroy this motor...two pistons are badly scored and one of which actally has a hole in it:

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the block however is immaculate and i plan on purchaseing the SBR topline rebuild kit:

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i bought the car in non-running condition so i had no idea the extent of the damage.

 

[hopwoodp]

this motor was already mounted and used in a 2g car, however somehow he managed to destroy this motor...two pistons are badly scored and one of which actally has a hole in it:

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the block however is immaculate and i plan on purchaseing the SBR topline rebuild kit:

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i bought the car in non-running condition so i had no idea the extent of the damage.

Ok, let see some pictures of the cylinder bores. Also, check the head for flatness and pull the cams out - put spark plugs in all the way - then fill the combusting bowl with water and check for leaks. Your best bet is to take the motor to a machine shop and have them rebore the cylinders if they need it(totally up to you), see about a valve job if needed, and also a head resurface.

So, let us know what you plan on doing with this motor(ie, Daily driver w/hp range, weekend warrior, etc) ok. So, keep those pictures coming.

 

[Splitpi]

looks like the oil squirters are removed.

 

[silver eclipse]

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According to your photo, its is notched.
-Chad

 

[97redgsx]

the oil squirters are still there, sorry i noticed it was notched after i posted the pics...camera takes better pics then i can see i suppose. my plans are for a weekend warrior i want to run mid 12's now and drop into 11's by the end of the summer....im hopeing to accomplish this with less than $6k. the head is already at the machine shop getting a full valve job and port and polish...any advice on what to use for the vavletrain parts?

also is this the famed "blacktop CAS":

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and just for reference this is the car the motor came out of:

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(BTW: i am the original poster, i accidently used my roomates SN)

 

[hopwoodp]

the oil squirters are still there, sorry i noticed it was notched after i posted the pics...camera takes better pics then i can see i suppose. my plans are for a weekend warrior i want to run mid 12's now and drop into 11's by the end of the summer....im hopeing to accomplish this with less than $6k. the head is already at the machine shop getting a full valve job and port and polish...any advice on what to use for the vavletrain parts?

also is this the famed "blacktop CAS":

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and just for reference this is the car the motor came out of:

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(BTW: i am the original poster, i accidently used my roomates SN)

The CAS is from a 90' motor. For the valve train, its totally up to you. See about a 3 angle valve job but, its not entirely nessesary. A stock rebuild, in your case would be fine. Just make sure to use quality parts.

What turbo do you plan to run? 12's shouldn't be too hard to achive as long as you have proper supporting mods and good tuning. Keep it coming. Good job so far.

 

[gsxeclipse97]

thats not a black top cas. The black top ones are made of plastic.

 

[97redgsx]

will that CAS work or should i get another one?

i plan on running an Evo III at 17-20psi... i have 3in turbo back exhaust already and i plan on getting dsm link and bigger injectors, i was thinking 700 or more in case i decide to go bigger later (unless i find a great deal on some smaller ones). i need to get a BOV to, right now i am running a crushed 1st gen. (i didn't crush it, it came like that). i will be using some other misc parts that are slipping my mind at the moment.

i will upload pics of the cylinder bores tonight, im at work now.

 

[hopwoodp]

will that CAS work or should i get another one?

i plan on running an Evo III at 17-20psi... i have 3in turbo back exhaust already and i plan on getting dsm link and bigger injectors, i was thinking 700 or more in case i decide to go bigger later (unless i find a great deal on some smaller ones). i need to get a BOV to, right now i am running a crushed 1st gen. (i didn't crush it, it came like that). i will be using some other misc parts that are slipping my mind at the moment.

i will upload pics of the cylinder bores tonight, im at work now.

I would try a different CAS in your case. Anything 91-94 would be good. In order to use the 90 CAS you will need to rewire your sensor setup. I would just get another year CAS and get RRE's plug and play CAS harness.

DSMlink is great. I run FIC 1000cc fuel injectors and my idle is fine. Look at the DSMlink forums for more info. www.dsmlink.com/forums

 

[primalfear600]

here are some cylinder bore pics:

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im a tad worried about this one:

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the rest look ok.

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[hopwoodp]

Ok, That was what I needed to see. My advise to you is that you get your cylinders bored and properly honed. The surface of the block doesn't look all that bad but, its up to you to have it resurfaced (if you do, make sure it has a very very smooth finish - better gasket sealing). Also, the most important thing to remember is that you need to make sure you take your block to a machine shop that is known for its work. Some people will act like they know how to take care of your block but, in some cases it will end up screwing you. If there is nobody in your area that you trust that can do this, have it shipped to someone that knows these engines. Just remember that you get what you pay for.

 

[97redgsx]

this is the piston from cyl #3:

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also what is this screw for?

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And can anybody tell me how to remove the balance shafts from the oil pump(im afraid to force anything because its aluminum)

also, whats the best way to remove the balance shaft bearings?

 

[hopwoodp]

Here is the vfaq for that: http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html

I've done the balance shaft removal before and it wasn't all that hard to do. But, you will need to make sure you have the proper tools. Its going to take some time to do but, you'll figure out it and its worth it.

As for that piston shot. Dang - I would get that block rebored for sure. God knows what that piston and those rings did to your cylinder walls.

Also, for the balance shaft removal, get a bsek from RRE, FFWDconnection or someone like them and get a NEW front case. Believe me, its worth it. So, don't worry about damaging your oil front case. Chances are you will find a way to nick or cut into the case while you remove it but, don't worry because your going to replace it, right?

If you have anymore questions, no matter how stupid you think they may be - ask.

Edit: Also make sure to replace those freeze plugs while you are getting your block machined.

 

[97redgsx]

well, id loveto replace the front cover, but its a bit pricey and after removing it, it seems to be fine...i am a college student so i am rying to balance this budget a bit...

how much bore do you think i will need? .10, .20? more? i would like to order the SBR rebuild kit soon, also have you guys hear anything good about that rebuild kit?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I'd be more informative, but it looks like hopwoodp has done all of the talking. Just my .02, but topline for the engine = . I'm all about OEM

I too am a college student, building a DSM on a budget (sort of). To me, saving another week or two for OEM or better product is always the best route. I've done the "cheap way" out many times over and it always turned into the "more expensive and longer" route. Take it for what it's worth.

Judging from the looks of that DSM it came out of, the previous owner treated that engine the same way he treated his paint, like shit. I'd be wary as to reuse anything that came off of that engine. Get it all fully checked out and take your time!

Also, if you're looking to do an OEM rebuild, just get a good set of 1g piston/rods, get the block tidied up by a machine shop, throw some new OEM bearings and/or rod bolts (I prefer ARP), get the squirters in, front case, seals, oil pump, oil pickup,etc. and you're good to go. Couple that with ARP headstuds and a milled head and you'll be in business. Extra cost is around 3-400 dollars depending on how you shop, but the peace of mind is more than worth it

 

[97redgsx]

i heard topline was just as good as OEM, some people said it was even better...this set up is only going to lat me 30K or until i get out of college...then i am gong to sell the car, and buy a evo...i just want a car that i can have alot of fun with on the street and drag, and auto cross..

i know i could go all big power right away and get all these great parts but quite fankely i don't have the expierce level to build a full out racecar, and keep it properly tuned.

but as far as topline goes, anybody else heard goodbad things about thier rebuild kit???

 

[roni-wan]

you can use some stuff from partsdinosaur.com thats what i used when i had to rebuild and is as good as oem

 

[hopwoodp]

I'd be more informative, but it looks like hopwoodp has done all of the talking. Just my .02, but topline for the engine = . I'm all about OEM

I too am a college student, building a DSM on a budget (sort of). To me, saving another week or two for OEM or better product is always the best route. I've done the "cheap way" out many times over and it always turned into the "more expensive and longer" route. Take it for what it's worth.

Judging from the looks of that DSM it came out of, the previous owner treated that engine the same way he treated his paint, like shit. I'd be wary as to reuse anything that came off of that engine. Get it all fully checked out and take your time!

Also, if you're looking to do an OEM rebuild, just get a good set of 1g piston/rods, get the block tidied up by a machine shop, throw some new OEM bearings and/or rod bolts (I prefer ARP), get the squirters in, front case, seals, oil pump, oil pickup,etc. and you're good to go. Couple that with ARP headstuds and a milled head and you'll be in business. Extra cost is around 3-400 dollars depending on how you shop, but the peace of mind is more than worth it

You hit that one on the head. I could not have said it better. I 2nd using OEM parts as well as ARP hardware. Better safe and spendy now, than sad and spending later.

 

[97redgsx]

how bad are these topline parts anyways???? from what i can tell SBR doesn't really stock crap parts....so they must believe in it somewhat? does anybody have expierience with this stuff?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I spoke to Matt (when he still was at SBR) about this same exact topic. His opinion is that topline is another cheaper alternative to OEM or aftermarket products. Irregardless, some have used topline and other OE replacement stuff and not had a problem, some have used that stuff and it failed on them a couple thousand miles down the road. That is the game we play here, are you going to try and save money and take a chance, or are you going to spend the money and not worry?

But you're right, SBR doesn't stock crappy parts. They also do not claim it is the end-all-be-all of replacement OE products. They posted that they've used topline stuff in their cars, but seriously, do you think that their shop cars are going to have "replacement" parts or original/aftermarket parts?

btw, SBR is known for having the highest priced parts around. If you just take a little time (with jnztuning or mentormitsubishi, whatever) I bet you can find all of your OEM products for the same price as SBR's "topline rebuild kit".

It's simple really.

 

[97redgsx]

well i called SBR today, they seem to have no REAL opinion on the kit he said "i can't say its better, i can't say its worse" i wouldn't say not to go performance, maybe stock is the way to go" "topline is just as good as stock" he said all this in the span of a 2 min conversation, although i only spoke with him for a short time it seemed he was "salesman-ing" me and knew nothing about his product.

so at this point i really need a non-bias professional opion on the subject, either that or somebody who has used this kit themselves

 

[BISHILVR]

Go oem, no doubts then. You have'nt ever heard anybody say anything bad about oem parts have you?