560's & E316G

[kiddsm95]

What boost pressure on an E316G will the IX 560's hit 100% IDC? Assuming ARP head stud equipped, will the 560's support 25 psi from an E316G?

Thanks.

 

[zhjiln]

What boost pressure on an E316G will the IX 560's hit 100% IDC? Assuming ARP head stud equipped, will the 560's support 25 psi from an E316G?

Thanks.

do you have an upgraded fuel pump ?

 

[delta448]

Bench racing FTL.

Every car is different. Install them and log away.

 

[kiddsm95]

do you have an upgraded fuel pump ?

Been a while since I updated my profile.

I'm running an 06' IX MR fp re-wired for 14V. The reason I ask is because I'll be installing ARP head studs tomorrow. Currently I'm running 20 psi on the 560's and I think they're close to being maxed out.

Can someone post the equation for checking IDC's? I can log and calculate it myself.

 

[delta448]

Can someone post the equation for checking IDC's?

(Horsepower * BSFC) / (number of injectors * duty cycle) = flow rate per injector
or
duty cycle = [(horsepower * BSFC) / number of injectors] / flow rate per injector

 

[whiteflash]

My small 16g hit fuel cut around 24psi with a walbro 190 and evo 560's (stock engine btw)

 

[delta448]

My small 16g hit fuel cut around 24psi with a walbro 190 and evo 560's (stock engine btw)

Fuel cut is calculated by the ECU based on airflow measured at the MAS, not IDC. If you use an airflow meter (SAFC, MAFT, etc.) to offset the MAS signal for larger injectors, you hit fuel cut later. The more you offset the signal (the bigger the injectors are) the further you can go before hitting fuel cut. Also, if you have a boost leak it can induce premature fuel cut as well, since the airflow measured is more than actual.

 

[kiddsm95]

I found IDC = IPW * (120)/rpm on another post. How can I determine the HP & BSFC without a dyno?

There also isn't much info on DSMT about IPW, how do I determine the pulse width of 560's? I use OBDGauge to log and have an SAFC II, but haven't run across IPW values yet.

Thoughts?

 

[delta448]

I've not used OBDGauge, what sensors/values are available for you to log?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Good question im curious as well with my 560s and evo 16g.

 

[FonZ454]

I would say 20-22psi would be just maxing them... assuming your car is really moving air well and not just running that much boost. IE tuned well.

 

[kiddsm95]

I assume that the only parameters that would be relevant for IDC is air flow rate (g/s) and RPM. From there we can calculate IDC, but the missing piece of the puzzle is still IPW. Anyone know how to determine the IPW?

As for maxing out the 560's I'm still curious. There was a 1G at the track last time I went that had the same set up that I've got, but he was running 550's and his boost was creeping to 24 psi. He had DSMLink and said that his IDC's were in the 115% range. Since some 560's flow more like 580-590 would that mean IDC at 24 psi is going to be lower?

Another question, how does the stock FPR affect IDC?

 

[whiteflash]

Fuel cut is calculated by the ECU based on airflow measured at the MAS, not IDC. If you use an airflow meter (SAFC, MAFT, etc.) to offset the MAS signal for larger injectors, you hit fuel cut later. The more you offset the signal (the bigger the injectors are) the further you can go before hitting fuel cut. Also, if you have a boost leak it can induce premature fuel cut as well, since the airflow measured is more than actual.

Well fact of the matter is at 24psi the car starting cutting out, I just assumed the injectors were maxed out. Turned it down to 20psi and it was fine, I was using a safc too

 

[kiddsm95]

Well fact of the matter is at 24psi the car starting cutting out, I just assumed the injectors were maxed out. Turned it down to 20psi and it was fine, I was using a safc too

Is your 190 re-wired? If not, I wonder if possibly your fp is cutting out. From what I've read the IX MR flows a bit more than the 190.

 

[whiteflash]

No it wasn't re-wired..

 

[Splitpi]

I cannot tell you the boost pressure.... nor can I tell you how much YOUR car will actually make.

I can however tell you a very broad range of power that the injectors can support under ideal conditions.

Here is the formula to get the range:

HP = ((flow[in cc/min] / 10.5) * (# of injectors * IDC)) / BSFC

We know the flow: 560 cc/min
We know the # of injectors : 4
We use the ideal MAX IDC: 0.8
We do not know the BSFC because this varies with each car and with each run... but we can assume between 0.55 to 0.65 for turbo charged engines

Plugging it all in:

HP = ((560 / 10.5) * (4 * 0.8)) / (0.55) = 310.3 HP
HP = ((560 / 10.5) * (4 * 0.8)) / (0.65) = 262.6 HP

So I would expect them to flow somewhere between 310.3 HP to 262.6 HP under ideal conditions at 80% IDC. If I wanted more power from them I would either increase base fuel pressure or get larger injectors. I would not recommend running past 80% IDC.

 

[SiNiST3R]

550cc @ 100% IDC will support 39.48lbs/min
550cc @ 80% IDC will support 31.58lbs/min

580cc @ 100% IDC will support 41.63lbs/min
580cc @ 80% IDC will support 33.31lbs/min

Might give ya little info you wont get 25psi on 560s sorry tried 550s at 20psi and that's almost 100 IDCs alone.

Also Look at your timing having high boost and low timing is not always the best route.

Just buy bigger injectors simple as that why put stress on your car? this thread is full of fail

 

[kiddsm95]

I cannot tell you the boost pressure.... nor can I tell you how much YOUR car will actually make.

I can however tell you a very broad range of power that the injectors can support under ideal conditions.

Here is the formula to get the range:

HP = ((flow[in cc/min] / 10.5) * (# of injectors * IDC)) / BSFC

We know the flow: 560 cc/min
We know the # of injectors : 4
We use the ideal MAX IDC: 0.8
We do not know the BSFC because this varies with each car and with each run... but we can assume between 0.55 to 0.65 for turbo charged engines

Plugging it all in:

HP = ((560 / 10.5) * (4 * 0.8)) / (0.55) = 310.3 HP
HP = ((560 / 10.5) * (4 * 0.8)) / (0.65) = 262.6 HP

So I would expect them to flow somewhere between 310.3 HP to 262.6 HP under ideal conditions at 80% IDC. If I wanted more power from them I would either increase base fuel pressure or get larger injectors. I would not recommend running past 80% IDC.

Rep points to you buddy.

 

[kiddsm95]

Curiousity made me do a log at 23 psi, 91 pump gas.

Evo IX 560's with IX MR fuel pump (rewired). Can someone run the numbers to calculate my IDC's using my air intake flow rate (g/s), timing and O2 data? I also have logs for 19 and 20 psi on 91 pump that I can post up.

Engine RPM Vehicle speed Ignition timing advance Air temperature Intake air flow rate Throttle position Oxygen Sensor 2
1420 28 11 27 25 99 980
1732 33 14 27 33 99 960
2084 42 12 26 44 98 960
2532 52 10 25 65 98 980
3044 64 6 24 114 98 980
3868 71 10 23 134 97 980
4620 90 9 23 167 98 980
5400 110 12 21 191 99 1000
6152 129 17 20 198 99 1000

Engine RPM Vehicle speed Ignition timing advance Air temperature Intake air flow rate Throttle position Oxygen Sensor 2
1572 38 21 20 22 99 960
1820 38 14 19 33 97 960
2120 44 14 19 43 99 960
2444 48 12 19 58 98 960
2892 58 9 20 97 98 980
3584 69 10 20 118 98 980
4260 87 11 21 147 97 980
5004 104 12 20 179 99 1000
5924 114 14 20 196 99 1000
6376 133 16 19 203 99 1000

 

[Spades]

Holy hell 133mph!! Are you logging in 4th gear? Try logging in 3rd gear, also you're logging too many parameters, you will get more data per second with less logging, only really need RPM, timing, o2, airflow. That looks waaay rich with your .96-1V o2 reading, you definitely have some room to lean out those 560s which will lower your IDCs

 

[kiddsm95]

kph, so roughly 82 mph. OBDGauge requiers logs to be done in metric, otherwise it won't pick-up airflow. Pulls were don't in 3rd gear, probably should have mentioned that.

I was logging air temp because I was comparing intake temps after the fmic install. Don't know why speed and TPS are in there...I'll take out the extra perameters.

So what is a good value to use for IPW for the Evo IX 560's? Once I get this # I can calculate the IDC.

As for O2V, is .96 V ideal?

What's everyone's thoughts on the timing adv? Seems fairly low, is it being pulled because of knock???

 

[JayRolla]

I hit 100% IDC right at 22psi on my 550's.

 

[boosted86]

I'd hit 90% at 22psi ( 33lbs/min) with my old evo injectors ( 560) and a 255 walbro. buying anything under 680's is stupid in my opinion. they cost about the same and the playing field is much larger. id say with some 680's and 255 walbro,you will be maxing out the efficiency of a 16g ( 36-39 lbs/min) on pump gas.

 

[kiddsm95]

Yeah, I got my IX 560's for $20 and they had about 8k miles on them.

Does anyone have data on how to get IPW? I know I need bigger injectors and will be order some soon, but at this point it's more about education. ODB Gauge doesn't log IPW, can I use Tunerstein to get this data?