50 trim question

[candela]

Relax there Mr. Evil...

We understand that you are untuned, and we all saw your little video I think what he ment was that only gainig 4mph (even though its a lot) it shouldn't take 7psi to do it. Tuning correctly would yield much better results IMO, as a properly setup car with your mods could/should make ~10+hp per psi

 

[evil_eagle]

Originally posted by candela
Relax there Mr. Evil...

We understand that you are untuned, and we all saw your little video I think what he ment was that only gainig 4mph (even though its a lot) it shouldn't take 7psi to do it. Tuning correctly would yield much better results IMO, as a properly setup car with your mods could/should make ~10+hp per psi

LMFAO I'm ok dude, I was just explaining how it works, yes I realize the mph was little low for 7 lbs more, but!! I was spining the slicks, and you know and I know that spining tires will result in crapy mph, thats all I was stateing. I have only ran the car twice now, so ya it's way untuned.

realy if you think about it, if I was not spining the slicks half way down the track then I would have gone 10mph faster then 18lbs, but it's just a pain in the ass to sit the slicks down to the track, not to mention riding off the revlimiter .
-Jake

 

[TALONTED]

The only 50 trim I saw on pump gas made 320WHP with cams, vpc, 20psi, etc.

My big 16G made 308WHP on 16.5psi with same mods.


But Im assuming that was a fluke for his patic car

::not impressed!::

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by TALONTED
The only 50 trim I saw on pump gas made 320WHP with cams, vpc, 20psi, etc.

My big 16G made 308WHP on 16.5psi with same mods.


But Im assuming that was a fluke for his patic car

::not impressed!::

Thats called someone who slapped it on the car and obviously did not tune anything..

 

[bigfoot]

Dre's page 432 HP on pump.

http://www.twingles.com/ideck/

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

But when you spin as much as I do, then your mph goes to crap.

Actually, spinning the tires results in HIGHER traps, but also higher ET. Look at a FWD vs. AWD running the exact same MPH. Which car has lower ET? The AWD, due to less wheelspin. Same coin, other side. FWD vs. AWD running exact same ET, FWD car has higher MPH, due to more wheelspin.
The longer you are on the track, the more time you have to build mph, in the case of FWD. The time you are wasting spinning the tires, is more time able to generate mph.

How/why do you think 600hp Supra's run mid 12's @ 120mph when an AWD DSM can run a mid 12 @ 110mph?? WHEELSPIN!!!!

Mike

 

[evil_eagle]

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0


Actually, spinning the tires results in HIGHER traps, but also higher ET. Look at a FWD vs. AWD running the exact same MPH. Which car has lower ET? The AWD, due to less wheelspin. Same coin, other side. FWD vs. AWD running exact same ET, FWD car has higher MPH, due to more wheelspin.
The longer you are on the track, the more time you have to build mph, in the case of FWD. The time you are wasting spinning the tires, is more time able to generate mph.

How/why do you think 600hp Supra's run mid 12's @ 120mph when an AWD DSM can run a mid 12 @ 110mph?? WHEELSPIN!!!!

Mike

The reason I say my mph goes to crap is due to spining the tires, but when i do spin I'm in that gear longer since I'm spining the tires so much, so if I ever did hook up, I could shift ealirier and get a better mph, this has been proven many of times, I've been drag racing for 7 years now, I know how it works.
picture this, your in the rain, or snow with a fwd, you stomp on it, what happens? your tires light up right? right. You look down and your mph is like 85mph, but is your car really moving that fast? NO, you like only moving 20 mph. So it takes longer to get up to 75-85mph when you are spining so bad, same concept on the track just not as extreme. SO if I could hook up in 1st and 2nd gear then I could reach a higher mph alot faster, but when you are spining you tend to stay in that gear longer, other wise when you shift the car will fall on it's face. (you have 1/4mile to do all of this, the track does not get longer for some reason )
So yes my mph would be faster if I hooked up.
And do not compare RWD and AWD with a fwd, comparing a supra to a fwd dsm is like comparing apples and oranges, no comparioson.
Yes mph between fwd and awd is different, why? gear ratio thats why, top end in fwd is a world of difference then awd, everyone knows this.

I have been in fwd's for years, 8 years counting, been doing this for along time, I know how shit works, I have numbers of logs from the track that I have wrote down for the past 5 years with this car. There are plenty of times that I have spun the tires worse on 1 run then the run before, and results in a shitter MPH when i spin. Ask any FWD guy here, they know that when you spin in a fwd you tend to stay in that gear longer then you would if you hooked up. Yes maybe a supra has higher mph then an awd, and have the same et time, but there are tons of reasons for that, like the supra could have a shity bottom end off the line and no power till 1/8mile. Now the AWD on the other hand, maybe the awd had a crap load of low end torque and when he reaches 1/8th mile then the top end goes to shit resulting in a crap MPH but good et, just cause the ET's are the same, and the mph are not (1 is higher then the other) does not mean one of them is spining the tires. Every car has different torque bands and power bands, and gear ratio.
but anyway, back on topic, this thread is not about MPH, it's about a 50 trim turbo. Stop arguing and get on with it.
-Jake

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Well, I can speak on both occasions since I own both. As for the mph issue, both my FWD and my AWD car ran 12.80's. The FWD went 112mph while the AWD went 105mph. The AWD has more traction, so you spend less time spinning and more time accelerating. This results in lower mph but same ET.

So, explain how cars with no traction run super high MPH, but crappy ET's. I don't care if it's an 800hp Supra or a 500hp FWD. Wheelspin is wheelspin, regardless of it's drivetrain.

 

[evil_eagle]

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0
Well, I can speak on both occasions since I own both. As for the mph issue, both my FWD and my AWD car ran 12.80's. The FWD went 112mph while the AWD went 105mph. The AWD has more traction, so you spend less time spinning and more time accelerating. This results in lower mph but same ET.

So, explain how cars with no traction run super high MPH, but crappy ET's. I don't care if it's an 800hp Supra or a 500hp FWD. Wheelspin is wheelspin, regardless of it's drivetrain.

Jesus christ dude, did I not mention GEAR RATIO!!!?? AND YOU GOTTA REMEMBER THAT FWD CAR IS LIGHTER IN WEIGHT!!! so yes with the fwd having different gearing, and being lighter the mph is going to be higher, why cant you understand this???

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you when all your doing is rambleing on about this. I'm done, my last word is heard.
-Jake

 

[bigfoot]

Holy highjack. Hey girls if your gonna argue at least tear each others clothes off.

 

[evil_eagle]

Originally posted by bigfoot
Holy highjack. Hey girls if your gonna argue at least tear each others clothes off.

LMFAO!!!:laugh:

 

[TRBOTSI]

Spinning your tires will give you a higher mph, equaling higher ET and vice versa. But who cares...we could argue all day..I think everyone agrees that the 50 trim compressor wheel is a kick ass wheel..IMO the best for a street driven DSM....

 

[DSMotorsport]

Use of my customers just made 451 AWD wheel hp with our 50 trim kit. 26psi racegas. Car has for other mods:
stock 1g bottom, stock 1g head, 264's, venom intake
AEM EMS, 650s
DSMotorsport 50 trim t3t4 kit, 216FMIC
Trevor Sandiford...not sure if he's on this board.

Also had a boost leak, coudn't get boost over 26...he had just put that 216 FMIC (had a 120 before) on that day, and forgot to tighten one of the clamps in the rush, so were expecting another 20hp on the next dyno attempt. That's if the stock 6 bolt bottom holds up.

 

[UndergroundR32]

Originally posted by DSMotorsport
Use of my customers just made 451 AWD wheel hp with our 50 trim kit. 26psi racegas. Car has for other mods:
stock 1g bottom, stock 1g head, 264's, venom intake
AEM EMS, 650s
DSMotorsport 50 trim t3t4 kit, 216FMIC
Trevor Sandiford...not sure if he's on this board.

Also had a boost leak, coudn't get boost over 26...he had just put that 216 FMIC (had a 120 before) on that day, and forgot to tighten one of the clamps in the rush, so were expecting another 20hp on the next dyno attempt. That's if the stock 6 bolt bottom holds up.

It's posts like this that make me wonder why I spent what I did on porting Sounds awsome though.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by DSMotorsport
Use of my customers just made 451 AWD wheel hp with our 50 trim kit. 26psi racegas. Car has for other mods:
stock 1g bottom, stock 1g head, 264's, venom intake
AEM EMS, 650s
DSMotorsport 50 trim t3t4 kit, 216FMIC
Trevor Sandiford...not sure if he's on this board.

Also had a boost leak, coudn't get boost over 26...he had just put that 216 FMIC (had a 120 before) on that day, and forgot to tighten one of the clamps in the rush, so were expecting another 20hp on the next dyno attempt. That's if the stock 6 bolt bottom holds up.

wow, thats incredible.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0
to further expand on this, there has been a 50 trim that dyno'd at 486wheel hp at 30psi, so it IS possible. It could have made more, but the stock ECU/MAS setup was now a major restriction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Can you give us more details as in turbo vendor, tuning shop etc.


Well, I finally found the post for this.

.

Pretty amazing what a e50 wheel can do. 487whp and 477ft-lbs (SAE corrected) of torque on a car with a S-AFC 2maf and stock intake mani & TB. With HKS 272/272's spool-up is about 30psi of boost by 3500-3600rpm in 3rd gear on the road.

If you want/need any more info, contact www.automotosports.com

 

[bigfoot]

Was that was an AMS bolt on turbo? Could you provide a link to that thread? I'd like to see his full mods, exhaust manifold etc. maybe PM him. For me it's 50 trim vs. 60-1.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

bigfoot,
Those are 2 totally different monsters there. The 50 trim will actually make more power on pump gas than the 60-1 will and also spool up a LOT quicker. The 60-1 doesn't begin to outflow the 50 trim until 28psi.
One guy with a fully built 4G63 saw full boost on the 50 trim at 3700 while the 60-1 doesn't get there until 4300 or so. This was on a built 8.5:1 motor as well.
The 60-1 is not really a pump-gas friendly turbo. it doesn't begin to shine until you are running 28+ psi. As far as the equipment info, it was a standard T04E 50 trim, .63 A/R, stg. 3 t3/t4, using a ported 2G exh. manifold with a custom made adapter allowing the T3 housing to be bolted onto the DSM manifold.
Like I said, if you want info, call up AMS and ask for Martin. www.automotosports.com

 

[bigfoot]

I don't like the 60-1 map either, but I keep reading posts who swear by them for a built 2.4 like mine. I see Dre making 432 on pump gas at 22psi. with a 8cm Green. Which is right where I want to be. Will a 8cm or a .54 or so T-31 bolt-on resrict a 2.4? My other option is to get a $$$ manifold and go full Garrett.

 

[DSMotorsport]

60-1 is not a good turbo IMHO. I swapped the 50 trim/III/.63 for a 60-1/III/.63 last summer on my yellow car.
best et on the 50 trim was 11.01 @ 125.8 with awsome spoolup and drivability...no powershifting needed to keep it up.

with the 60-1 and no other changes....the average runs were 11.3's @ 128. the bigger turbo was only worth like 3mph, but the spoolup was so bad that the ET dropped.

I actually had better 60' times with the 60-1 because the spoolup was slow and manageeable, compared to the hit the 50 trim would do in first gear. even with better 60 times the ET suffered alot from the spoolup problem.

The only time the bigger turbo ran well was with a nitrous hit right off the line, but I honestly think hitting the 50 trim with the nitrous would have gone just as fast.

BTW with the 60-1 I wasn't getting 30psi in 3 and 4th gears tilla bout 4500.-4700 BUT it won't make more than 13psi in first gear and 18 in second gear because there's no load on the engine and it rev's out faster than the boost comes up.

NOT a good setup.

 

[DSMJim]

Everybody does the 50trim with a .63 exhaust stage 3. Has anybody run a stage 2 exhaust wheel? I know it is a but smaller but the area ratio is the same so it should provide a bit better spool up while still being able to make 375+ HP.

Any opinions on this for guys looking for say 350 wheel on pump?

 

[DSM-SONATA]

As Nate said, the Stage 3 doesn't have a problem with boost coming on. There's no reason to require a stage 2 turbine wheel. I bought a new turbonetics 50 Trim with stage 3 .63 turbo setup (like the one that he just mentioned) and haven't had any problems with lag. I'm running 18psi and the car feels great as is, FWD 2G setup with bm tranny fwd lsd

 

[DSMJim]

OK well here is the thing, I ordered a stage 3 and got a stage 2 thats my problem. Do I send it back to Turbonetics or keep it? It took me forever as it is to get this turbo I fear the thought of sending it back. I want to make say 350 on pump tops will I be able to do it on the stage 2 wheel?

 

[bigfoot]

Thanks DSM, that was on a 2.0 right? Mine is a 2.4 with big valves, cams and porting. I totaly agree with running only as big a turbo as you need. BTW I found out the TA34 bolt on is a .69 A/R, bigger than I thought, which would help on a ported 2.4. Still reccomend a 50 for me?

 

[Black95TSIawd]

is there such a thing as the t3/t04e with a .48 i need something very very fast spooling