400WHP on a 16g, 18g or 20g

[Cassera]

I am looking for approx 400whp on a 1g eclipse gsx. My goals are to run very low 12's if not high 11's if thats possible, with stock internals. I was wondering which turbo out of a big 16g 18g or 20g will get me there the easiest. I am looking for a car that is very streetable and is not too laggy running between 25-30psi that will give me a huge kick on top end and low end power as well. I know it is normally either top end or low end but I am looking for something in between maybe even leaning towards top end. If you guys have any other suggestions for turbos let me know....thanks a lot.

P.s. Which turbos will I need headstuds for, or does it depend on the psi I am planning on to run?....I am trying to keep stock internals tho but ay if I have to than I have to.

 

[ziggo0]

You got a lot of searching to do but I'll say the 16g will struggle to hit 400, 18g should be there with supporting mods and the 20g will hit it easy. Again, search.

 

[gofer]

You got a lot of searching to do but I'll say the 16g will struggle to hit 400, 18g should be there with supporting mods and the 20g will hit it easy. Again, search.

like he said there are a TON of threads on this exact same question. search the site and do some research...
ive got every supporting mod in the book thrown at my car running a 16g and look at my dyno'd hp. its rough getting to 300hp without cams on a 16g and its damn near impossible getting to 400hp without running e85 or race fuel. if you want 400hp id look at the forced performance hta68 or fp green, i know they aren't ANY of the turbos you asked about but the 20g's pretty laggy.

 

[2gawdtsi]

Also, check out the holset hx35
iv heard pretty good things about it, good power and spool.
and should get you to 400 easily, cheap too.

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

like he said there are a TON of threads on this exact same question. search the site and do some research...
ive got every supporting mod in the book thrown at my car running a 16g and look at my dyno'd hp. its rough getting to 300hp without cams on a 16g and its damn near impossible getting to 400hp without running e85 or race fuel. if you want 400hp id look at the forced performance hta68 or fp green, i know they aren't ANY of the turbos you asked about but the 20g's pretty laggy.

It's definitely not impossible, you just have to have the right setup. You certainly need cams to make it happen though. I have all the supporting mods on an Evo 3 16g and I made 322whp on 23 psi on a Mustang dyno with a quick safc tune. On a dynojet figure closer to 350whp if not more. Definitely not impossible, it will just be easier to get it with a 20g, but not as much fun.

Oh, and if you plan on running that much power, regardless of what turbo you have you're going to need some ARP's and either a Cometic or Mitsu MLS headgasket to play it safe.

 

[Clinical]

Highly recommend starting to look at your engine itself if this is your goal.

ARP Heads / Studs / etc are basically a must to play it safe with that power goal.
If it's within your budget - you could even start thinking about internals such as pistons/rods - although stock internals will still be sufficient for 400hp.

Highly advise getting a 20g if you're looking to do this. You're going to want some good cams.
If it's openly available to you - E85 would be a good idea to look at too. On top of all this you're going to want a good tune - if you have DSMLink or something of the sort, make sure you get it tuned by someone who knows what they're doing.

Good luck!

 

[jjm96gst]

You'll need some studs to safely run anything over 18psi. And 20g would be the way to go.

 

[delta448]

An 18G 6SL2 has supported 445awhp on E85 and spools faster than the TD06H 20G which is a 500awhp dynojet capable turbo. But a beginning tuner will certainly be able to reach 400+ easier with the 20G. Not many turbo shops still offer a TD06H 18G or 20G. Just make sure you get a turbine larger than the TDO5H.

Personally, I'd go HX35.

You'll need some studs to safely run anything over 18psi. And 20g would be the way to go.

I really doubt you'll ever break the stock headbolts at 18psi on a 16G. Be careful how you word things.

 

[jeffo]

Agreed. If you are serious about hitting 400 whp, you need to go bigger. Sure, the 18G 6SL2 or an FP Green might have a slight amount of lag, but in the long run they are a better investment than pushing a 20G to its limit, IMHO, especially if you plan on mostly running pumpgas.

 

[Cassera]

All these replys are awesome. I did A lot of searching but you cant really find an answer to your specific needs. What I am trying to do is get about 400whp with as little internals as possible, than when I am ready I will start doing internals to get a little more power out of it. I am gonna look into the 18g and the fp green. The thing is i'd rather push the 18g to the limit to get the most out of it rather than not getting the most out of an fp green. I want 400whp with the turbo being pushed as far as it can go (safely of coarse with ALL supporting mods). Yah you guys are starting to convice me to do kelford cams w dual valve springs :\ screw it in todays world its either go big or go home. I will definately not be tuning this car myself, I have very good connections with evo and eclipse tuners via my cuzin so tuning wont be a huge problem. Im gonna do a little more research on the fp green to see if it has what I need without overdoing it.

 

[Boomdeeze]

You said you want to put bolt on and not do any internal first, then you would come back and do some internals to get a little more power out of it? I think you have it backwards . Usually you would want to put a little money in internals, then put the big turbo on. Dont get me wrong, you can do it on stock internals. But will upgraded internals your goal can be achieved with less worrying if something is going to break,

 

[IgotBoost91]

The 18g will get you there with the right tune.

 

[Cassera]

I think I have my mind set on an FP Green....do any of you know of any borgwarner turbos that rival the fp green?
Well yah I just want to do the internals that I would absolutely need like studs, as far as pistons and rods go, i think i would hold off on that for a lil. And yah i want to do all bolt ons. Was looking at some kelford 272's, I feel those cams would be a beast for what I am looking for

 

[My1GLaser]

I don't know anything about BW turbos, but the 7-blade HX-35 would be a better option IMO.

You could get a rebuilt one and a BEP bolt-on housing for about half the price of a Green. Also, the HX-35 spool should kick the Greens ass since it is supposed to outspool my FP18g6sl2. I get 28-30 psi by about 4100 rpms.

In addition, when you want to upgrade later, you can sell the bolton stuff and get a T3 setup and add about 100whp...thats my plan anyway. I currently have an 18g with about 400whp and <--- that time in my sig. I expect about 11.7@117 this weekend with this cold air since the tracks are still open in the south when its above 45*

 

[donniekak]

An 18G 6SL2 has supported 445awhp on E85 and spools faster than the TD06H 20G which is a 500awhp dynojet capable turbo. But a beginning tuner will certainly be able to reach 400+ easier with the 20G. Not many turbo shops still offer a TD06H 18G or 20G. Just make sure you get a turbine larger than the TDO5H.

Personally, I'd go HX35.



I really doubt you'll ever break the stock headbolts at 18psi on a 16G. Be careful how you word things.

I run stock headbolts and a composite gasket on my 35psi evo3/e85 car, no problems. I used to run arp's on all of my cars, but over the course of time haven't noticed a diference, ie a car lifting stock 6-bolt bolts lifts standard arp's also. But, the l19's are a step above for sure, and will hold anything. In my book a fresh stock 6-bolt is good for 450-500 whp, with a great tune. No need for partial upgrades, do the pistons, rods, and headgasket/studs all at once if you plan on crossing that line. If you plan on staying under 450ish, the stock 6-bolt is fine.

 

[Demon33]

You'll need some studs to safely run anything over 18psi. And 20g would be the way to go.

My stock 1G 6-bolt head bolts have been reused TWICE and still hold 26 PSI from my Evo3 16G on a stock head gasket with no problems. 6-bolt head bolts are definitely stronger, but even 7-bolt head bolts should be fine at 18 PSI or higher with a good tune (i.e. no detonation).

 

[kpsc93TSi]

if u check out my profile you can see what all i have on my tsi awd and im at 314.9 hp with a totaly stock motor and upgraded fuel delivery, 16g fmic,3 in exhause... etc... so its not hard just need a good tune and a little fath... + with say a 2.3 and head work with my set up now im sure 400 isnt out of the Q. good luck bro!

 

[untouchablecc]

Do you want to be a pump gas car or e85/race gas? The bigger the turbo the easier to run pump gas. I would say a holset would be a good start if your worried about money. You can have a complete turbo set up waste gate, turbo, lines, and bolt on housing for the neighborhood for 500-600pesos. Thats what a 16g costs new. I would chance using the Holslut for that kinda money just to see if you like it or not and it would for sure get you your power range. A tdo5 20g is not a bad turbo, spools like a 16g and nets more air flow. You could hit 400 on that turbo but cams an meth would be needed most likely.

 

[Cassera]

Do you want to be a pump gas car or e85/race gas? The bigger the turbo the easier to run pump gas. I would say a holset would be a good start if your worried about money. You can have a complete turbo set up waste gate, turbo, lines, and bolt on housing for the neighborhood for 500-600pesos. Thats what a 16g costs new. I would chance using the Holslut for that kinda money just to see if you like it or not and it would for sure get you your power range. A tdo5 20g is not a bad turbo, spools like a 16g and nets more air flow. You could hit 400 on that turbo but cams an meth would be needed most likely.

Yah I would like to run pump gas 93oct
I am starting to lean towards the FP green though, it seems as if that will give me more room to later on push more ponies. I am looking for a dual bearing turbo so does anybody know if the fp green is dual bearing? I was trying to search but couldnt find answers. Money is not an option for the turbo setup, I am not trying to go cheap with that. If the fp isnt dual than I would have to look at garret. What about the holsethx35 is that dual bearing?

 

[dsm-freak]

+1 hx35 w/bep housing. will out spool the green and will have more head rome latter on if you want it (you will). cheap, durible, and one heck of a great tubo. its whats going on mine(t3). and no its not dbb, its a journal bearing.