4 Gallons of e85 mixed with 92 pump! What a difference!

[bsbllfit7]

So i have been continually adding 4 gallons of e85 to each fill up. The results are awesome and have me contemplating running e85 all the time! The extra octane is allowing slightly higher boost, leaner afr's and more timing with only 4 gallons! Before i would knock with any advance at 20 psi on 92 oct and now im running 22.5 up to 24 at redline with 3-7 degrees of advance. I also wasnt able to go any leaner then 10.1 afr before doing this and now im right around 11.1. I did have to compensate and change my Speed density table to accommodate for the need for more fuel with e85. The beauty is if i need to fill up and am not at a area where i have a station i just zero out my sliders and remind myself not to go full throttle and she performs perfectly. IDC's are at about 65% with the 4 gallons of e85 and dsm link estimate of horsepower is around 420whp! I am going to go with 5 gallons next time and see how that performs. My idc's should still be under 80% but will probably allow me to lean it out even more and possible a degree or two of extra timing. This is all temporary tell i get new cams and meth/water injection but the results are amazing!

 

[Calan]

I did have to compensate and change my Speed density table to accommodate for the need for more fuel with e85.

Once your airflow is calibrated, you should leave the VE table alone...unless something physically changes that requires recalibration of the expected airflow (different intake components, IM, larger TB, etc).

Use the global fuel value to compensate for different fuel blends. It's much faster and easier, not to mention it keeps your baseline airflow table intact. Once your AFR's are reading the same as before the global change, you can then use the DA AFR tables to set up leaner targets for the E85.

 

[bsbllfit7]

i think the VE table just needed more adjustment because it wasnt THAT FAR out. It probably just made the high and low spots more drastic because with e85 requiring more fuel it would be too lean in areas. Either way all is well now. Im impressed with the results of just a couple gallons. How would i calculate what the octane of this mix comes out to be? I know there are formulas out there to find out.

 

[Calan]

How would i calculate what the octane of this mix comes out to be? I know there are formulas out there to find out.

Here is a spreadsheet I created that calculates octane, stoich, SG, etc... and several other things you may find useful: http://www.jcsautomation.com/temp/CAS_TuningTools.xls

The ECMLink scaling table is from this tech article.

 

[bsbllfit7]

turns out to be 96 octane! If i go up to 5 gallons it will be 97 octane and im sure would still not max out these injectors!

 

[cliffkemp]

what turbo are you running? I am also curious if you know much about the greddy emanage as my car has that currently. I want something different but do not have the time and money to do so right now. I am running a small 16g with 880s at 20psi peak. If I were to mix some 116 with my 93, will that help? I know nothing about tuning but, learning quickly. I hope I have not intruded on the post too much. Tuning seems to be a touchy subject on here and any information would be great.

Thank you for your time.

 

[bsbllfit7]

unfortunately i dont know about emanage but yes mixing in that 116 will definitely raise the octane. That will allow increased power without knocking. You must make sure you have the necessary tools to tune though. Tuning tool itself, wideband, boost gauge, and just a basic knowledge of whats going on even. Its a fun thing tuning is and you learn as you go. Im leaps and bounds above where i was 2 months ago and have alot more to learn still! I like the idea of mixing fuel if you have crappy pump like i do and dont want to go full e85. My reason for not wanting to go full e85 is kinda different than anyone elses.

That tool is awesome for dialing in a tune! Absolutely amazing didnt know anything like that existed!

 

[cliffkemp]

unfortunately i dont know about emanage but yes mixing in that 116 will definitely raise the octane. That will allow increased power without knocking. You must make sure you have the necessary tools to tune though. Tuning tool itself, wideband, boost gauge, and just a basic knowledge of whats going on even. Its a fun thing tuning is and you learn as you go. Im leaps and bounds above where i was 2 months ago and have alot more to learn still! I like the idea of mixing fuel if you have crappy pump like i do and dont want to go full e85. My reason for not wanting to go full e85 is kinda different than anyone elses.

I have a wideband and boost gauge and afpr and all the goodies. I would take it to a dyno shop to tune it. I have an idea about tuning but, I will leave that to the pros for now. We do not have e85 pumps in my area that I know of but, a friend of mine owns a shop and can get vp116 and I can buy it through him when needed. I was intrigued by your results and want to get dsmlink soon and have more tuning capabilities as well. I do not think emanage allow much for timing as just for fuel trimming. My tuner said that my set up is good for around 280 awhp and if i wanted to go much more than 325 with a larger turbo, I would need a better tuning tool such as dsmlink or aem if i wanted to go with a stand alone basically. (guess that is what he meant, again, I am still learning. I have owned 4 dsm cars and more into it this time around as it has been 13 years + since I have owned the other 3. I want to get another in good shape but hard to find.

 

[bsbllfit7]

what octane pump gas do you have out there. And i wouldnt necessarily start mixing unless you are just looking for more out of the setup. With my setup my head and cams seem to be a restriction that was prone to knock. I wasnt able to do much and was running richer then i wanted to be. With doing this it allows me to have the afr where it should be AND ad back in timing and more boost. I would think about upgrading to a new turbo first and see where that gets you and go from there. Get v3lite even thats what i have and i really dont need anything else......YET

 

[cliffkemp]

what octane pump gas do you have out there. And i wouldnt necessarily start mixing unless you are just looking for more out of the setup. With my setup my head and cams seem to be a restriction that was prone to knock. I wasnt able to do much and was running richer then i wanted to be. With doing this it allows me to have the afr where it should be AND ad back in timing and more boost. I would think about upgrading to a new turbo first and see where that gets you and go from there. Get v3lite even thats what i have and i really dont need anything else......YET

....I am having a turbo built that will be similar to the fp green. my afr is around 10 as well. Currently fixing the TB as it was leaking a little, according to the shop. I was looking for afr to be around 11 as well but, not sure if that is possible with emanage. I am waiting on the turbo to be finished. When it is, I am going to go external with the wastegate and lower the boost til I can get a better tuning device. I would like to get the v3lite as I have heard good things about it. I do have the odd-ball 90 model and not sure about the socket stuff on it and cannot look at it for the moment as it is at the shop. My goal is around 400awhp. Will fix all the transmission issue when that power starts killing it as the car is getting fairly old and stock trans as far as I know but does have an updated clutch in it. Will probably go with a shep trans or something of the sort. I do wonder why they do not have a seperate shaft upgrade for the awd version. I hear that the single shaft is a bad idea. wonder why they just do not make 2 al shafts that are a direct bolt on???

have 93 at the pump.

 

[bsbllfit7]

I will be filling up with 5 gallons of e85 tomorrow and seeing how it affects things. I still get some knock on hot days so I'm hoping that will go away with the extra gallon.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

 

[dpun3]

Keep us updated. I plan on converting my Evo to e-85 soon.

 

[bsbllfit7]

Im going golfing today, and on the way there I will be putting 5 gallons in. I will do some logs on the way to the course and post back with results

 

[99gst_racer]

Surely you don't mean only 3-7* timing adavnce?

 

[bsbllfit7]

Haha yup thats exactly what i mean! Ill attach a log when I get back, its a very knock happy setup!

 

[99gst_racer]

That's terrible! I've been able to get as much as 22* advance on race gas. How much advance were you running with pump gas? Sounds like something in your turn is way off...

 

[bsbllfit7]

On pump i was running 0-3* timing advance at like 18 psi. Im running 23 psi and 5-7* right now with 4 gallons of e85 mixed in. Im putting 5 gallons in today and will see how that effects things!

 

[skatershawn]

Keep us updated. I plan on converting my Evo to e-85 soon.

This is E85 Added to 93 pump gas!
And im assuming you didnt change anything on the on the injector size?
Ive read you can run up to 40% Ethanol with out compensating the injector size, and ive previously ran 10gals of 93 pump with 2gals of E85 with no tune of any sort and can seemed to pull smoother(not harder) at 18psi(spiking to 22+psi).

Good stuff though man!

 

[TSimage]

Why would anyone cheat themselves...

E85 is gods gift to man. Run a full tank and never look back.

 

[bsbllfit7]

I have a gas card from my fiancees dads company for shell so i get free gas..... If i didnt have that id be running e85 all the way. So thats why im messing around and trying to find something that works that allows me to still use that benefit that we have. Im trying to mix e-85 first then will try meth injection to see how that works for my setup. What i really need are some cams. The stockers are killing me right now. Also this is e85 mixed with 92 pump gas not 93.

 

[TSimage]

Our Shells out here have E85.. But I feel you on that, free gas is free gas..

 

[bsbllfit7]

There is only one shell that has e85 here and its about 70 miles away. When i go to my parents house up in Portland I stop there and get my mix there for free. As of now its costing me about 14-18 dollars a tank for the e85 which isnt terrible! Would I have as good of results with meth as I am with mixing e85?

Also im at the point where im trying to find a 2g shell and use my old engine in it and make that car my DD and turn this into my fun hot sunny day car!

 

[TSimage]

If you are only mixing the 2, you might get similar gains to E85 using meth/water...

Now E85 on it own is a whole new ball game.

 

[bsbllfit7]

Oh ya I wish I could run just straight e85 and I probably will in the future. Either that or e98 which I can get from English Racing for $4.00 a gallon. Once I get a secondary car it will be seeing nothing but ethanol for sure.

 

[zcoh2gdsm]

e85 maybe cheaper but you only get 70% of the fuel economy you do on pump gas. it burns much faster than pump gas too, that's why you compensate it with bigger injectors, it's not as combustable so you need to dump in more gas. yes it's a 40+hp gain but after running it for 2 months in my STi, it's a straight up pain in the as*, im converting back to 93 in just a week or two.