4 cylinder rivals

[BaileyBoy]

There are a few cars i was wondering if an eclipse could beat. The clips i am refering to is a 98 gst or gsx. I am wondering if it were a straight line and just engine power no spray, just what came stock. If anyone has raced these cars below please tell me how u did. (If they had any after market parts, or the year of the car please list them if you know) THANKS A TON

THE LIST:

Toyota Celica GTS
Honda Prelude
Toyota MR-2 (Turbo or N/A)
Acura Integra GSR
Honda Civic (anything special)
Ford Mustang GT or SVT
Mazda Miata mx-5
Mazda Rx-7 (any year)
Chevy Camaro's
Acura RSX

Once again thanks a ton for the help!

 

[Dsmshopping]

All of those are close. It depends on whos auto/manual, and who can drive better. Camaro with ls1 will kill you. Mustang will give you a good run for your money, probably walk away. This is under the condition that the GSX is going from a stop, and the GS-T from a roll. TT RX-7 will kill you too. Except the Cvic.
-Dan

 

[definitiveno]

..where is captain "no bench racing here" when you need him.......

 

[1WheelDrive]

I drive a 93 fwd tsi. I have raced everyone of the cars on the list. Although now I am quite modified, (and by modified I mean apart in the shop) I was once stock. I have also raced my buddy's 95 talon tsi awd when I stock and bearly won (I guess 1gs are just a bit quicker?)


Toyota Celica GTS - Kill it, pobably by about 1 to 1.5 seconds through the quarter

Honda Prelude - see Toyota GTS. Type SH would be a little closer but the tourqe just isnt there to compete with a turbocharger.

Toyota MR-2 (Turbo or N/A) - Much closer race with the turbo, infact with a gsx, you would probably lose at top end, a front drive would be better geared for a match with a turbo mr2. As for N/A mr2, you'd kill it.

Acura Integra GSR - See Toyota GTS

Honda Civic (anything special) - Modified with a turbo, stock motor, running about 6 psi as that is about what they could handle safely on stock internals, you would still beat it. It would be close though.

Ford Mustang GT - gsx - pull off the line, lose come about 4th gear (after the quarter)
- gst - lose off the line, (perfect launch to perfect launch) stay on the bumper through the quarter, continue to stay on the bumper through all gears.
Ford Mustang SVT - Would rape our happy little mitsus

Mazda Miata mx-5 - Although they can come with v6, quad cam, the power is a measly 128hp, you do the math.

Mazda Rx-7 (any year) - turbo, good close race, top end is insane cause of the amount of revs they posses and the power band. Non turbo, See Toyota GTS

Chevy Camaro's - Old ones take abuse from our 4g63t's, new ones are a little better. I raced a ls1 after my bigger turbo, forged internals and fuel upgrades and won!!! Not buy much but I was pulling away in third. That was on 9 to 1's running 19 psi though. Stock is not going to touch one. Maybe through the intersection ummmm I mean the first 60 feet on the track.

Acura RSX - Both the types are slow. regular is 141 footpoundstourqe, type s is 142 footpoundstourqe. The can be quick but in a gsx, no compitition, gst will start to pull away when they get traction.

Hope that helps, I am soooo board and this helped to pass some time. Have a great day and happy boosting.

 

[Endz0r]

from a roll against a ls1 camaro, i've been walked from 20 to 100 by about 2-3 cars. i assume from a stop i could probably take one a stop, until 4th gear or so.

 

[half-cocked]

Porsche Boxster, pretty close but I was pulling him slowly.

 

[polarmoment]

well, i own a 95 TSi AWD and a 91 MR2 turbo. stock for stock, the MR2 destroys the talon in every category imaginable save for snow/gravel. i feel like i'm driving a tank when i switch from the 2 to the TSi, but i bought the talon as a winter car so it fits its purpose very well.

platform vs platform though, keep in mind that an MR2 is about 500lbs lighter than an AWD dsm and can launch just as hard (there's a reason drag racing sanctioning bodies in japan group the MR2's with the AWD cars) so in that alone it has a distinct advantage. couple that with the fact that the MR2 uses a transverse gearbox (FWD style- the most efficient type) so it's losing a lot less power through the drivetrain than the dsm as well.

(since we're comparing stock for stock) the stock MR2 BOV will NEVER leak- doesn't matter if you're running 75psi boost.

MR2's use McPherson strut suspension which means under launch/braking they are not susceptible to the kind of camber gain under squat/dive that most other cars are. camber gain in a straight line=smaller tire contact patch. they recover camber through castor in the steering for cornering.

MR2's have better brakes (actually, the 93+ have recorded some of the best 60-0 distances of any production cars- 105ft.)

these are just my observations.

 

[Just Nasty]

4cyl rivals?
All the cars you listed aren't 4 cyl. you know?

 

[tsibryan]

Mazda Miata mx-5 - Although they can come with v6, quad cam, the power is a measly 128hp, you do the math.

Never heard of a factory v6 miata... The best they got is the Mazdaspeed 1.8l 4cyl turbo pushing 178 hp and 166 ft/lb tq. I don't know how the Mazdaspeed does against DSMs though.

 

[drivemusicnow]

well, i own a 95 TSi AWD and a 91 MR2 turbo. stock for stock, the MR2 destroys the talon in every category imaginable save for snow/gravel. i feel like i'm driving a tank when i switch from the 2 to the TSi, but i bought the talon as a winter car so it fits its purpose very well.

platform vs platform though, keep in mind that an MR2 is about 500lbs lighter than an AWD dsm and can launch just as hard (there's a reason drag racing sanctioning bodies in japan group the MR2's with the AWD cars) so in that alone it has a distinct advantage. couple that with the fact that the MR2 uses a transverse gearbox (FWD style- the most efficient type) so it's losing a lot less power through the drivetrain than the dsm as well.

(since we're comparing stock for stock) the stock MR2 BOV will NEVER leak- doesn't matter if you're running 75psi boost.

MR2's use McPherson strut suspension which means under launch/braking they are not susceptible to the kind of camber gain under squat/dive that most other cars are. camber gain in a straight line=smaller tire contact patch. they recover camber through castor in the steering for cornering.

MR2's have better brakes (actually, the 93+ have recorded some of the best 60-0 distances of any production cars- 105ft.)

these are just my observations.

Have you ever actually raced either? because a lot of times a car can feel a LOT faster, even if its not... just the sound, the suspension feel, and the size of teh car affects how it feels... Stock MR2 turbo is listed as a 14.7, i think people have seen stock dsms run 14.8s-14.9s all depends on how much you like your drivetrain. but saying an MR2 destroys it??? thats a bit of an exageration

 

[96whgsx]

Never heard of a factory v6 miata... The best they got is the Mazdaspeed 1.8l 4cyl turbo pushing 178 hp and 166 ft/lb tq. I don't know how the Mazdaspeed does against DSMs though.

Yes, only 4cyl and 1.6 or 1.8. They are one of the lightest cars I know of, 2200 lbs dry I believe. I have one, modified, but never did run against my eclipse. After all, I am only one person. Stock, the 1.8 runs around mid 16s. The turbo model, I'm guessing, does mid-low 14s. This a prediction with the turbo systems that are available to the earlier miatas. They run t28 at around 9psi which makes around 170-180 rwhp and high 13s if they drive very well.

 

[DevilSperm]

No "bench racing". Bench racing is defined as posting hypothetical questions to try and see how fast or how powerful your car is, or will be. If you want to know what time to expect at the track, whether or not your car can beat another specified car, or how much power it will have with a particular modification (or mod list), then go to the track or the dyno and find out for sure. Do not ask for people to guess in our forums. It's pointless and it wastes space. Serious enthusiasts go out and do it, they don't talk about doing it. If you're not serious about performance, find another online community to be apart of.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/faq.php?faq=faq_rules#faq_faq_general

 

[polarmoment]

Have you ever actually raced either? because a lot of times a car can feel a LOT faster, even if its not... just the sound, the suspension feel, and the size of teh car affects how it feels... Stock MR2 turbo is listed as a 14.7, i think people have seen stock dsms run 14.8s-14.9s all depends on how much you like your drivetrain. but saying an MR2 destroys it??? thats a bit of an exageration

and people have seen stock MR2's run low 14's (the stock genIII powered cars can do high 13's). but i'm not talking about what i've heard, i'm talking about what i've driven. remember, less weight, less driveline loss, same launch, same power. 4-500lbs on a car with only 200 crank HP or so is a pretty hefty chunk. not to mention you can beat the hell out of the MR2 drivetrain and not have to worry about towing it home. those trannies are bulletproof.

 

[Morphius]

couple that with the fact that the MR2 uses a transverse gearbox (FWD style- the most efficient type) so it's losing a lot less power through the drivetrain than the dsm as well.

??? Go back and study what you said. Does it make sense? Especially if the DSM is a GST?

 

[Morphius]

Ford Mustang GT - gsx - pull off the line, lose come about 4th gear (after the quarter)
- gst - lose off the line, (perfect launch to perfect launch) stay on the bumper through the quarter, continue to stay on the bumper through all gears.
Ford Mustang SVT - Would rape our happy little mitsus.

I disagree. At the track I raced a buddy in his 02 GT with mods. It was dynoed at the track that day at 260WHP vs me 195WHP. My car had 195K miles, compression reading 125 across the board, 3" turbo back, 15psi, airbox hacked, and 195/60 winter tires. Also, I had decomissioned it to FWD status by removing the AWD tranny and installing a FWD.

Off the line, we both had wheel spin through 2nd gear until we grabbed 3rd. He had more meat there, so he jumped ahead by 1/2 car length. By the 1/8 I had cut that down to my front tire at his rear tire and by the end we crossed the line at the same time.

 

[95TSiNewbie]

good thread...lots of good personal info and fact... but I hate to say it... soon a mod will lock the thread for bench racing.

 

[polarmoment]

??? Go back and study what you said. Does it make sense? Especially if the DSM is a GST?

yes, it makes perfect sense. the AWD dsm loses more power through the drivetrain. if it were a GST, it would lose ground on the launch, so the fact that it's losing less than an AWD through the drivetrain (or more importantly, putting the same power down as the MR2) is a moot point.

i can see your point though. i should have said "the MR2 has the benefit of the launching abilities of an AWD with the drivetrain loss of the FWD." in either scenerio, however, the MR2 still has the advantage.

sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[945liter]

I disagree. At the track I raced a buddy in his 02 GT with mods. It was dynoed at the track that day at 260WHP vs me 195WHP. My car had 195K miles, compression reading 125 across the board, 3" turbo back, 15psi, airbox hacked, and 195/60 winter tires. Also, I had decomissioned it to FWD status by removing the AWD tranny and installing a FWD.

Off the line, we both had wheel spin through 2nd gear until we grabbed 3rd. He had more meat there, so he jumped ahead by 1/2 car length. By the 1/8 I had cut that down to my front tire at his rear tire and by the end we crossed the line at the same time.

You do realize an 02GT 5spd with bolt ons will trap over 100? i dont think your mods would put you over 100mph traps and did you still have the extra weight from the rear? since it was an awd.

 

[PaleDSM]

Mazda Miata mx-5 - Although they can come with v6, quad cam, the power is a measly 128hp, you do the math.

Nope, never was a V6 powered Miata.

and people have seen stock MR2's run low 14's (the stock genIII powered cars can do high 13's).

MKIII Mr2s do not run high 13s. Most run mid 15s stock. I own one and am pretty active in that community.

 

[BaileyBoy]

Sorry to any body I upset. I didnt mean to "bench race", heck i dont even own an eclipse yet. I was just wondering what certain cars ran compared to an eclipse (which is what i know most about when it comes to times). Once again sorry.

 

[PaleDSM]

If you are strictly looking for straight line acceleration time look at something like Motortrend or Car and Driver and look at their acceleration testing results. I think it is Motortrend that lists all of their test going back years.

 

[Morphius]

You do realize an 02GT 5spd with bolt ons will trap over 100? i dont think your mods would put you over 100mph traps and did you still have the extra weight from the rear? since it was an awd.

That may be the case, but for the conditions at the track and both of us having a heavy foot off the line, it was a good solid race. Simply put, once we both hooked, I ran him down.

 

[Morphius]

yes, it makes perfect sense. the AWD dsm loses more power through the drivetrain. if it were a GST, it would lose ground on the launch, so the fact that it's losing less than an AWD through the drivetrain (or more importantly, putting the same power down as the MR2) is a moot point.

i can see your point though. i should have said "the MR2 has the benefit of the launching abilities of an AWD with the drivetrain loss of the FWD." in either scenerio, however, the MR2 still has the advantage.

sorry for the misunderstanding.

Here's what I was getting at:

couple that with the fact that the MR2 uses a transverse gearbox (FWD style- the most efficient type) so it's losing a lot less power through the drivetrain than the dsm as well.

When I read this, you are saying the DSM doesn't have a transverse engine. Thus, the reason for losing alot more power. I can understand you might have been (or were) referring to the AWD, but that's not how it read. There is some more loss on a AWD vs FWD, but I do believe there are veterns that have proven that loss is pretty small in comparison to the effects of the weight difference.

 

[polarmoment]

MKIII Mr2s do not run high 13s. Most run mid 15s stock. I own one and am pretty active in that community.

you're right. MKIII MR2's don't run anywhere near 13sec. but i'm not talking about MKIII MR2's, i'm talking about MKII MR2's with the genIII 3SGTE engine.

the stock genIII powered cars can do high 13's

but again, those are results i've seen, not experienced firsthand so i'm not touting it as fact. that statement was more in response to an earlier statement about people having "seen" stock dsm's run 14.8-9. my point is that those results have been "seen" in the MR2 community but it doesn't make them relevant to the discussion as they're not firsthand experience.

When I read this, you are saying the DSM doesn't have a transverse engine. Thus, the reason for losing alot more power. I can understand you might have been (or were) referring to the AWD, but that's not how it read.

i should have said "MR2 also uses a transverse... than the AWD dsm..."
point taken. i should have phrased it better. i apologize.
*removes foot from mouth*

anyway, i don't think i need to drag this any further off topic. carry on...

 

[Endz0r]

fastest mr2 in the world last i checked was 9.9. there are plenty of dsm's that kill that. look at dsmtimes and then look at the 1/4 mile registry off mr2faq.com and compare. soooo many more faster DSMs.