3000gt vr4 brake upgrade with enkei rpf1?

[SasaniFab]

Ok so im aware that the oem evo 5 wheels fit with this setup. Does anyone have any experience with rpf1's with the vr4 calipers? Its starting to look like a cheaper option getting a set of f1's over the 5's. Like a 17inch 35 offset wheel. Thanks guys

 

[Maxthepersonz]

I don't know if I'm allowed to post this but take a look at one or two of the threads that I have started. RPF1s in that size should fit just fine but I'd recommend a slightly larger offset unless you're planning on rolling your fenders. I know 17x8 +35 have fit for other members with just some grinding on the rear control arm that needs to be done. Then you can run a fat tire too

 

[Talyn]

Did you ever find an answer about this? I'm looking to run the same setup, vr4 front calipers+Enkei RPF1s in 17 or 18.

 

[AdR]

It all depends on offset and wheel width.
17x8's & 17x8.5's have a different spoke pattern than the 17x9's at the same offset.

The 17x9's have a deeper dish and concave spokes which make fitment of big brake setups problematic without spacers. Evo calipers require 20mm spacers and it makes the wheel poke like crazy on a 2g and even worse on a 1g.

17x8's have spokes that are pushed outward and with a 30mm or 35mm offset have a good chance of fitting bbk's. I've seen pictures of Evo calipers fitting on 17x7.5 45mm. A VR4 caliper is smaller hence it should fit without any clearance issues.

See pictures here:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/rpf1-17x9-35-w-big-brake-kit.460566/#post-153233529

 

[Talyn]

I guess I still don't really understand offset, it seems to me like less offset should = more clearance for a thick brake caliper from everything I've read. Yet for some reason it seems to work the opposite way? I tried to put RPF1s in 18x9 +35mm offset on my 1g 3000gt vr4, and I was certain they would fit from all the information I had found, but they weren't even close to clearing the brake calipers, I checked their stamping and even measured them, and they were what they were supposed to be. RPF1s are about the only affordable lightweight wheel I know of, would like to run them on both my cars, and plan on putting vr4 brakes on the Talon. I just don't want to buy wheels that don't fit again.... I'm also not sure if 17s would clear or not, haven't quite decided between 17 and 18 for the talon.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

I guess I still don't really understand offset, it seems to me like less offset should = more clearance for a thick brake caliper from everything I've read. Yet for some reason it seems to work the opposite way? I tried to put RPF1s in 18x9 +35mm offset on my 1g 3000gt vr4, and I was certain they would fit from all the information I had found, but they weren't even close to clearing the brake calipers, I checked their stamping and even measured them, and they were what they were supposed to be. RPF1s are about the only affordable lightweight wheel I know of, would like to run them on both my cars, and plan on putting vr4 brakes on the Talon. I just don't want to buy wheels that don't fit again.... I'm also not sure if 17s would clear or not, haven't quite decided between 17 and 18 for the talon.

When you say weren't even close to fitting do you mean the caliper hitting the spokes or the wheel circumference won't clear?

 

[ACM]

You can _almost_ run the big 3kVR4 brakes with 16x8.5 Kosei K1s - they 'clearance' the wheel ID a little, so possibly weakening the wheels, but since the amount removed varied on a wheel-to-wheel basis (I have 8 K1s, it's different on each one, and not even consistent all the way around the rim), I'm guessing it's not that big a deal.

There are two critical dimensions - the OD of the brake package, and the width of the caliper. The OD of the package determines the minimum ID of the wheel - no wheel manufacturer/reseller I'm aware of supplies that data, so it becomes at best anecdotal; caliper width impinges on spoke design - the only wheel supplier I'm aware of that actively addresses this is Vollks. I had that problem with CCW - I ordered their deepest dished centre and it still didn't clear the VR4 brakes, I needed a 5mm spacer; those same wheels needed a 20mm+ spacer to clear the Mitsu Brembo package. I have the Evo/Galant Brembo setup on my street 2G using OEM uprights, so I do know the above dimensions are accurate.

I can say that 18x10.5 15mm offset RPF1s clear both the big 3KGTVR4 brakes and Evo Brembos on a 2G. They do stick out a country mile past the fenders however...

 

[AdR]

I guess I still don't really understand offset, it seems to me like less offset should = more clearance for a thick brake caliper from everything I've read. Yet for some reason it seems to work the opposite way? I tried to put RPF1s in 18x9 +35mm offset on my 1g 3000gt vr4, and I was certain they would fit from all the information I had found, but they weren't even close to clearing the brake calipers, I checked their stamping and even measured them, and they were what they were supposed to be. RPF1s are about the only affordable lightweight wheel I know of, would like to run them on both my cars, and plan on putting vr4 brakes on the Talon. I just don't want to buy wheels that don't fit again.... I'm also not sure if 17s would clear or not, haven't quite decided between 17 and 18 for the talon.

Lower offset does push the wheel farther outward but it's not as simple as that. Offset if from wheel center the final location of the hub moves in (positive offset) our out (negative offset). But the clearance is dependent on spoke design. If you read my previous post, RPF's have a different spoke design when they reach a 9in wheel width where they concave inward, add a lip and the hub is slightly different aswell. You probably would have gotten away with a x8.5 width wheel.

 

[Talyn]

When you say weren't even close to fitting do you mean the caliper hitting the spokes or the wheel circumference won't clear?

The calipers were too thick. Factory wheel size on a 3s is 17/18x8.5 +46mm.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

With the design of the rpf1, this member bought 17x9 +35's and still had to run a 20mm spacer for them to work. Making them more like a +15 offset.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/rpf1-17x9-35-w-big-brake-kit.460566/

 

[GPLaserRS]

With the design of the rpf1, this member bought 17x9 +35's and still had to run a 20mm spacer for them to work. Making them more like a +15 offset.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/rpf1-17x9-35-w-big-brake-kit.460566/

In that link you posted danielsl1999gsx is running a BAER BBK not 3000GT VR-4 calipers, without knowing the specs on that caliper it would be hard to make the assumption that the VR-4 calipers will have the same issue. Depending on what rotor you use will play a big factor in how the wheel is going fit, in that thread the OP was using a 13.5 or 14 inch rotor... If amsrn13 is running an RTM VR-4 kit w/ the 13" Cobra rotors then he could be getting close to the same issues, but again not knowing caliper dimensions makes it a moot discussion.

They are the BAER Pro Brake Kit. If you look the in 2g Catalog under the marketplace tab in the brake section you will find them there. Its the photo they use to for the brakes section. As for the rotos they are 13.5 or 14 inch, forgot exactly which one when i measured. This is a true bolt on kit with nothing to grind or drill, however i have never seen anyone run these besides me. Super rare (probably overpriced to extinction)

 

[danielsl1999gsx]

As stated above, fitting a BBK with RPF1 all depends on what width you plan on running. RPF1 change their spoke design from 8.5inch to 9inch. Any RPF1 with a width smaller than 9 inches will have a concave shape to their spoke design, giving them the ability to clear BBK with ease. However, move up half an inch to 9" and the spoke design becomes flat pushing the rim closer to the caliper.
I personally prefer the flat spoke design of the RPF1 in 9 inches and up vs the concave (bent) design which makes them look weird to me.
Now lets talk about offset, RPF1 in 8.5 inches or less will clear any BBK with an offset of 15mm-38mm with no spacers required. But when you move up to 9 inches and things get weird. RPF1 with a width of 9 inches or higher in an offset of 22-38mm will need some sort of spacer to clear any 4 pot BBK (Brembos, Stoptech, Baer, VR4, Etc...) Luckily for evo guys, the offset of 15-18mm with a width of 9 inches will clear all BBK. Sadly, us DSM guys dont have the wide fenders evo guys do so you will be poking out like a mofo. Hence why I sold my RPF1 for something more BBK friendly.

 

[Steve93Talon]

We tried fitting a Rotora kit with 17 x 9 RPF1s and it wasn't even close. I think they were the +45s.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

In that link you posted danielsl1999gsx is running a BAER BBK not 3000GT VR-4 calipers, without knowing the specs on that caliper it would be hard to make the assumption that the VR-4 calipers will have the same issue. Depending on what rotor you use will play a big factor in how the wheel is going fit, in that thread the OP was using a 13.5 or 14 inch rotor... If amsrn13 is running an RTM VR-4 kit w/ the 13" Cobra rotors then he could be getting close to the same issues, but again not knowing caliper dimensions makes it a moot discussion.

The link I posted was to show how RPF1's need a spacer with the offset when running a BBK. It doesn't matter if it's the BAER, 3kgt, Evo, or CTS-V. We already covered that the wheel will fit over the caliper and rotor. Now we are talking about offset. I posted that to show them the offset chosen will not work without something else, such as a spacer.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I thought it was pretty obvious that RPF1's in 17 inch sizes do not fit over big brakes without spacers. End of story.

All you have to do is look at the evo guys. The ones that run the 17x9 +35 wheels run a 20mm spacer so they can clear their brakes. 17x8 has even less clearance. The only RPF1's that fit without spacers are the wide 18's with low offsets.

 

[AdR]

I thought it was pretty obvious that RPF1's in 17 inch sizes do not fit over big brakes without spacers. End of story.

All you have to do is look at the evo guys. The ones that run the 17x9 +35 wheels run a 20mm spacer so they can clear their brakes. 17x8 has even less clearance. The only RPF1's that fit without spacers are the wide 18's with low offsets.

That is misleading. It's been stated about three times already in this same post... Spoke design from RPF1's in 7x8.5in or thinner is different from 17x9's, making the 17x9's problematic when fitting bbk's but the 8.5's are not. They actually provide More clearance than 17x9's at the same amout of offset and have been shown in a couple of threads already clearing big brake kits without adding spacers. It is all dependent on caliper width. I personally don't like the spoke design of 8.5's or lower. It makes it look akward, but if the OP likes them it's an option.

The best bet is finding a local wheel distribuitor and having them test fit the wheel with the caliper in place.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

That is misleading. It's been stated about three times already in this same post... Spoke design from RPF1's in 7x8.5in or thinner is different from 17x9's, making the 17x9's problematic when fitting bbk's but the 8.5's are not. They actually provide More clearance than 17x9's at the same amout of offset and have been shown in a couple of threads already clearing big brake kits without adding spacers. It is all dependent on caliper width. I personally don't like the spoke design of 8.5's or lower. It makes it look akward, but if the OP likes them it's an option.

The best bet is finding a local wheel distribuitor and having them test fit the wheel with the caliper in place.

What I said is not misleading. You are. Did you bother to click the links and read the threads? Every post or picture i've ever seen with RPF1's and big brakes ran spacers, including the narrower wheels. The spoke design has more to do with the backspacing. Infact, the curved-in versions have less space than the flat spokes. Its because the wheel is more flush with the hub. This is how it looks to me at least. Offset is the only thing that helps clear the brakes.


This link should be enough to tell you when you need, including a nice post by Neal from TireRack.

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-enkei-rpf1-offset-needed-clear-calipers.html

 

[GPLaserRS]

This supports what's being said here that Enkei changes the inner profile of their spokes from from one size barrel to another in no direct correlation to offset -

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog/wheel-fitment-templates-why-theyre-important

 

[AdR]

At least for Evo Brembo calipers it's just a question of simple math...

On my original reply I posted a link where bettfootball shows a picture of 17x7.5's 45mm black RPF1's with a 22mm spacer fitting on Evo Brembo calipers...

The spoke design of RPF's doesn't change until you reach the x9 widths to the concave design which is so problematic.

a 17x8.5 30mm offset adds 12.7mm (.5in) of extra clearance from the centerline of the drum. Adding that distance to the additional 15mm of the offset (45mm - 30mm) change gives you a total of 27.7mm of additional clearance vs 17x7.5 45mm RPF1's which he needed to use a 22mm spacer to fit... It's easy to see then that this wheel will fit a Brembo system which is on the larger side of the BBK's available for our cars. Will it fit a 3kGT BBK? Impossible to say as caliper dimensions have much to do with clearance. Does it fit a BBK without spacers? Well yes, apparently it does.

The best bet is to verify. There's plenty of Enkei RPF distributers around to be able to do test fits.

What I said is not misleading. You are. Did you bother to click the links and read the threads? Every post or picture i've ever seen with RPF1's and big brakes ran spacers, including the narrower wheels. The spoke design has more to do with the backspacing. Infact, the curved-in versions have less space than the flat spokes. Its because the wheel is more flush with the hub. This is how it looks to me at least. Offset is the only thing that helps clear the brakes.


This link should be enough to tell you when you need, including a nice post by Neal from TireRack.

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-enkei-rpf1-offset-needed-clear-calipers.html

All the posts I've read are either 17x9's 35mm or 17x7.5's with 45mm offset which obviously will require spacers. Even your own link and Neal's "nice post" states that lower than 9in widths with low offset fit without the use of the spacer which has been repeated here like a plauge... You only need to go to TireRack and select an Evo and it shows 8.5's clear without any issues. You stating that:

"I thought it was pretty obvious that RPF1's in 17 inch sizes do not fit over big brakes without spacers. End of story."

Then yes, that's completely misleading. All 17 RPF1's won't fit without a spacer is incorrect and an oversimplification of the problem. If you edited your original post to state "Some 17" RPFs won't fit over big brakes without spacers", then yes that would be accurate.

This is Neal's quote:
"17x8 ET35 clears with no issues

17x8.5 ET30 clears with no issues

17X9 ET22 9mm into the front of the caliper. Needs piloted spacer and longer studs to work.

17X9.5 ET18 clears the calipers."

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I stand corrected. I always ASSumed the shape of the spokes changed due to the face of the wheel sitting further into the car. The narrower wheels come with the lower offset which why I was thinking they fit.

I'll stick to 18x9.5(or 10) my next go around with wheels/tires.

 

[Talyn]

What kind of tire width is ideal for AWD cars anyways, I mean at current power levels I don't have traction issues in either car, I can't remember what's on the Talon, but I think 215 or something relatively narrow, my 3s has 245s, not particularly good tires on either car as well. 3s is basically stock, so ~300-320 Talon probably around 300-350 bhp.
I kind of feel like anything more than 9 would be excessive, and just add more rotational weight?
At this point I probably will wind up going to a wheel shop, I don't want to have to return another set of wheels...
And FWIW, for those that don't know, these Sumitomo 4 pots are THICK.

 

[AdR]

Anything over x9 in 35mm offset IMO is too darn wide for our fenders. Even x9's require some camber adjustment to fit properly and not poke. I currently have 235/45 tires on mine and take a look at my knuckle clearance (95 Talon). People have fitted 245/40's. I think a 17x8 30mm offset and 235 tires is a near perfect fit without requiring too much work. Tire grip depends on the tire and my car is 330whp approx with Khumo XS and no issues of grip.