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2g optimum spoiler height

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rival

15+ Year Contributor
246
99
Dec 12, 2004
aiken, South_Carolina
I was wondering if anyone has any input on the optimum height for rear wing to get the most effectiveness. setting my 95 talon up for track events, and am starting to work on aero. looking for height from deck lid to spoiler, and if there would be any benefit to mounting a bumper mounted gt style spoiler.
 
Ive wanted to know this too. Ive looked at other race and drift teams, and they seem to match the spoiler with the roof height . When a car is drifting you can see the spoiler work with the smoke.
 
yeah I have heard matching it with the roof height, but thought that was more of a drift thing, seems like race teams set them at different heights based on the cars design, hoping someone has experience with our chassis to offer some guidance. I would also like to do a bumper mounted setup as I have a carbon hatch and its not real sturdy to be taking any kind of downforce.
 
From what i know racing teams try to mount the wing higher so it will be in 'clean' air, air that has not been disturbed by the car itself. From looking at a simulated wind flow it seems that roof-high is plenty high to be in that clean air. Here is that simulation:

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High as possible within your rules. Roof height is just a common rules limit, nothing else. Go above the roof line if you can in the rules to get away from the airflow disturbance of the roof as much as you can.
 
how much does the position for to aft affect the aerodynamic effect, for example if the spoiler is mounted closer to the rear window vs. a bumper mounted spoiler set behind the hatch?
 
Since a lot of us dont have an option to use a wind tunnels. We're left to do our own research and go with what we think is best.

The cars that do the rear bumper mounted type have shorter rear decks/trunks. Example would be Brz, GTR ect. Dsm's have a long trunks. To high, or to far would cause air to travel under the wing. This is all in my opinion.
 
In a way DeadlyAKrunn47 is somewhat right. Often cars will extend the wing further back to put it in more even airflow that they would get less of when closer to their hatches/roofs (the air kind of flattens out as you get further away from the roof). This is because many wings are 2 dimensional and they don't handle differing airflow angles well that a 3d roof line generates. If you have a 3D wing of course you can make it more close to perfect to tolerate the 3D airflow. Since a true 3D wing tuned for an Eclipse roof doesn't exist, most will avoid that messy roof line airflow as much as possible by moving the wing up and/or back to get a flatter 2D airflow angle hitting the wing.

It also creates a larger lever arm, a force multiplier, but this increases the downforce slope/rate in the rear and thus can make rear downforce more on/off, and on/off forces on a car are tough for a driver to manage. Andrew Brilliant warned me about how that can make for difficult car tuning and the safer bet was to avoid it unless you know what you're doing, or you absolutely need the higher downforce made possible by putting the wing further back, which is why on my car I stayed at about rear decklid depth (as I have version 1 of his front aero and he said I wouldn't need to go to such extremes).

Also, the rearward positioning, like the height and wing width, also can be limited by rules, so make sure you look into that.

The commentary on too much air travelling under the wing though indicates a gross misunderstanding of how wings work.
 
yeah I have been talking with Andrew a lil about getting my hands on one of his kits for our cars, and was gonna talk to him about this but I believe he has been out of the country so wasn't about to bother him as its not that urgent, just getting started. thank you for all the imput, you guys have pointed out some things that I hadn't considered before and given good advice.
 
The APR gt500 wing is 3D. You're... kind of defeating the purpose of its shape by putting it so far back. In fact you'd likely be hurting its performance relative to it's peak potential by putting it back. Also, the downforce and drag numbers are actually relatively poor (like... 100 lbs less at 120mph relative to decent wings if my memory serves correctly), and getting a custom wing designed will get you better performance for a similar price. You could get a complete custom wing with better numbers and 2D shape for maybe $1600-ish (that would include uprights, so less without).
 
ok, thanks for the info TSiAWD666, is there a better performing wing that isn't in the realm of price that the gt1000 is? and just for my understanding, by 2d vs 3d is that referring to a strait wing without the raised center?
 
Better but for less? I don't know of any. The wings that would cost less would be mass produced and with likely unqualified performance.

Yeah, that's what I'm referring to when discussing 2d vs 3d. I'm talking about the side profile of the wing. If there is variation across the length of the wing then it would be a 3D profile, but if not then it's a 2D.

edit - just noticed you asked about the gt-1000, I responded thinking about the gt-500 wing. I didn't look much into dual/triple element wing designs, and can only say Andrew was very confident in his design of the gt-1000 that it would be one of the best designed 2d wings commercially available. I'd trust him on that any day.
 
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yeah, that's what I need to figure out, I have a carbon hatch right now and there is no way its gonna handle that, which is why I was thinking of doing the bumper mounted option, may come up with one that attaches like the bumper mount but curves back around the hatch to place the spoiler in a more forward position as if it were mounted to the hatch.
 
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