Resolved 2G No fuel no spark no clue!

[juggernot5200]

Hello all! Let me first say that I love this site and have found a lot of usefull information here. SO THANK YOU!!! Ok, I am new here, so please be patient if I dont understand some things. I am a mechanic in the army, but DSM turbos are new to me. Also, I was injured in Afghanistan and am on medical hold, so I do have some time to work on this thing, but not a lot of money.

Here's what I have - 1995 Eclipse GSX. (Not sure if it makes a difference, but the car was made in DEC of 94) Mods include Greddy turbo timer, Greddy16g turbo, turbo header, Greddy BOV, Apexi boost controller, Dejon intake, and 3in stainless exhaust. With that said, heres my problem...

I recently bought the car NOT RUNNING. The previous owner said he purchased the car from a guy and it was running at that time, it just had clutch issues. He told me that it stalled in his driveway and would not start back up. He said the clutch slave cylinder went out. He then proceeded to try and fix the no start problem. He replaced the coil pack, wires, and plugs, but it did not fix the problem. He found a blown capacitor in the ECU and just decided to sell it, rather than put the time and effort into making it right. Thats where I come in.

Since I started working on the car i found it to not have spark, or fuel, though the plugs do look black. (Some carbon but otherwise new, so I know it was running at some point after the guy replaced the plugs.) I have used this site quite often to get some ideas on what would cause a no fuel, no spark problem, but am coming up short. I replaced the ECU, cam shaft sensor, and crank sensor. I still have no fuel, and no spark. I did read here that a bad fuel pump relay might cause this, and that a bad coolant sensor could also cause this as well? I really just have no idea where to go from here. I really like the car, but I dont want to have to spend a fortune getting it back on the road. Any help ANYONE could provide would be fantastic! Thank you all again for the great information I have found so far...

 

[kleenf4i]

My first thought was the crank sensor but that's new so I would be leaning highly twords the ignition module.

 

[Marceldsm]

My first thought was the crank sensor but that's new so I would be leaning highly twords the ignition module.

Stupid question, how does the ignition module affect fuel delivery?

 

[kleenf4i]

Stupid question. How does the fuel pump relay fix the spark issue?

A bad ground in the harness can also cause these symptoms

 

[juggernot5200]

Ok, so here's a little update...

I tested the power supply pin to the ECU and found no power going to it. (#12 on the B-53 connector) The CEL doesn't come on at startup, nor can I retrieve codes from my scanner, so this makes sense.) I also tested the backup power supply (#80 on the B-56 connector) and have power at that pin.

I then tested the fuse under the hood in the fuse box labeled "Engine". I have power when I ground the power side of the terminal to the engine block, but not when I try to read them from pin to pin. Is this supposed to be this way? I noticed that several other fuses did the same thing. I was also thinking, if I have no power to the ECU, would it be possible to just run a power wire from the ignition switch, or would that screw something up further?

The car DOES crank, but there is still no fuel or spark. I did notice that the fuel line just before the rail is leaking, so it would stand to reason that the pump is pumping but the injectors are not opening.

Again, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[kleenf4i]

I tested the power supply pin to the ECU and found no power going to it. (#12 on the B-53 connector)

For the ECU: are you testing with the ignition turned to the on position?

For the fuse: it should also have power when ignition is on unless its a hot circuit (12v battery) then it should have power at all times. Typically fuses are always hot.

As far as jumping the ECU wires: if you do that you will likely fry the ECU if it isn't already. From what you have now said I would say the ECU is a suspect at this point. If you take the cover off you can inspect it or post a pic on here and let us see if anything looks bad.

Bad ECU's burn up circuits, capacitors, bridges, resistors, etc. I'll be watching this thread to try to help you.

 

[juggernot5200]

Thanks for the replay kleenf4i.

I did check the ECU with the ignition on, and the fuse as well. The ECU was just replaced. I also installed new caps in the original one to try it out first. The original did have a blown cap in the center of the board. I went ahead and replaced the ECU anyway, just in case the blown cap did some unseen damage to the ECU.

When I reinstalled the new capped one, it still didn't work. The new board had no effect and I still have the same problems. I have been trying to do some research on the problem and have seen a few posts of the MPI possibly being the cause of no power to ECU? I do not understand why I do not have power at the ECU though.

Also, the engine fuse has power to one side when connected to engine ground, but when the test leads are connected to both terminals, I get nothing. This would indicate a bad ground, right? The multimeter should bridge the connection and give me a reading if there were, wouldn't it?

This is a confusing problem. . Thanks again for your input!

 

[kleenf4i]

ok I see. So the ecu is new. So with you also testing with ignition on, I would say you have a short or bad ground. There is one ground wire on the back of the motor almost in the center, on the firewall. This would leave an open circuit if not grounded. also you can always pm me if you want any very detailed diagrams. on this website it wont let me post them with pictures so it does no good. and your welcome for helping. Thank you for serving the country

 

[juggernot5200]

Update- I have further tested the MFI and found no power going to it.

From the diagrams I have been looking at, the MFI powers the ECU, correct? If it does, where does the power come from for the MFI? I can't seem to find this on the schematics. I checked the 20a fuse under the hood (#4 in the panel labeled "Engine") and have no power across pins, regardless of the key position. I do have voltage when measured to ground, but not across pins. (The test light lights up when touching the hot side to ground, but does not light up from hot side of pin to the other pin.) Would this mean I have a bad ground, or break in the line somewhere?

If anyone could give me a schematic of the MFI circuit, or even point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Tyeler18]

You have MPI fuses on the battery post correct? I haven't looked at my 2g in a while, but I'm pretty positive they do. One of the 3 fuses on the + post is to power the MPI.

 

[juggernot5200]

I'm not sure what you are referring to as MPI? I have MFI as multiport fuel injection relay. There is a fusebox under the hood, but none on the battery post.

 

[kleenf4i]

Correct its an MFI relay.

Here's what your looking for, its letter "Y" for the location

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[Tyeler18]

Im not sure what you are refering to as MPI? I have MFI as multiport fuel injection relay. There is a fusebox under the hood, but none on the battery post.

MPI is what Mitsubishi calls it, MultiPort fuel Injection. So you're getting power to the fuse under the fuse box or no?

correct its an mfi relay.

Here's what your looking for, its letter "Y" for the location

He's already found that, and that it isn't getting power, so he needs to go farther back in the wiring towards the battery- ie the fuse in the fuse box.

 

[juggernot5200]

I am getting power to the fuse block under the hood, but it is not going from the box to the MPI relay.

I was just wondering if the power supply to the MPI comes directly from the #4 fuseable link under the hood, or if it comes from the ignition switch first?

If it comes directly from the fuse, I could just hook a power wire from the battery to the relay, right?

 

[-Boosty-]

I wish I could help you out here, I just encountered the same problem. Car was running great until I went to park it, I stalled it out and when I went to start it back up it wouldn't. Now I have no spark. This thread has pointed me in the right direction. Its about time the search button did me some good . Ill let you know if I figure out my problem as well. Thanks for the info guys.

 

[juggernot5200]

Update!!!- SUCCESS!!!!!.

After all the testing and termoil I finally figured it out.

I finally found a good wiring diagram of the MPI relay pinout. The power to the MPI comes straight from the #4 Fuseable link in the fuse box under the hood. With the mounting bracket hole to the right, the two pins that should be receiving power are the bottom two and are red and black. They should have 12v at all times. Mine, did not. I had a break in the wire somewhere. I did not find the break but did run a new hot wire to the MPI, complete with 30a fuse. The car fired right up.

Hopefully some of this information will help others with smilar issues. No Spark, No Fuel - check for power at the MPI relay first. It runs everything!

Thank you all who posted with help, I really do appreciate it! If anyone needs the information or diagrams I have obtained, feel free to PM me and I will do my best to make it available. Later.....

 

[juggernot5200]

Alright, the car is now running, but not very well. Here's the symptoms, hopefully someone can give me some ideas as to where to go from here.

Ok, so here we go, the car idles but is pretty rough. Initially it would not run at all with the CAS plugged in with the firing order in correct order. I then realized that someone had done the 1g CAS Mod. The sensor is on the top left side of the engine (passenger side) instead of under the intake cam gear on the right side.

The crankshaft position sensor is still located on the right side of engine, just above the crank gear. Once I reversed the firing order, the car would run but will bog down under acceleration. I can not go full throttle with it and it seems to be running rich to me.

I read a few of the posts on the 1g to 2g CAS Mod and was under the impression that the one mod would eliminate the CPS? When I unplug the CPS, the car will not run at all, so I'm not even sure that the mod was actually done.

Every manual I have looked at shows both sensors on the same side. I do have a Apexi SAFC, Greddy turbo timer, and Greddy boost controller installed, but I have never used them.

Any ideas on what I should check? I am unsure of the injector size, and whether the factory MAF has been replaced.

I will do some reading and see if I can figure some of this stuff out.

 

[Timechg]

Check to see if your ignition timing is set 5 degrees BTDC, you will need a timing light to check this.

If you don't have ECMLink, then you may have to do the potentiometer mod to get rid of the random misfires. I did the potentiometer mod while waiting for ECMlink (still not hooked up) and it seemed to do the trick (I still have the CEL though).

 

[juggernot5200]

I do not have ECMLink, but I do have an APEXI SAFC 2.

From my understanding, this controls everything from rpms to air fuel ratio. I am wondering if the SAFC2 just reset itself to default after the ECU and battery were disconnected for so long.

I downloaded the manuals today, so I will try to calibrate it (while running) tomorrow. Hopefully my idle and rich ignition problem will be cured when i calibrate the SAFC. Wish me luck. .

 

[Tyeler18]

Did you swap the injector wires too? I was just doing reading yesterday on swapping a 98/99 ECU in the 95 and it talked about swapping to a 1g CAS. As far as I remember the injectors AND the firing order needed swapped.

 

[juggernot5200]

Wow! Thanks for the tip! It never occured to me to switch the injector order. That does make sense. I will try it out and see whet happens. Thanks again!

 

[subie_hunter]

Where did you get the diagram pinout for the MPI relay? I'm having the exact same problem in my 95 TSi

How is exactly did you fix your MPI relay. Did you run the new power wire off the battery or fuse box and did you splice it into the MPI relay or did you just cut the red and black wire and rewire them both on the same wire you ran?

 

[turbotom]

Update!!!- SUCCESS!!!!!. After all the testing and termoil I finally figured it out. I finally found a good wiring diagram of the MFI pinout. The power to the MFI comes straight from the #4 Fuseable link in the fuse box under the hood. With the mounting bracket hole to the right, the two pins that should be receiving power are the bottom two and are red and black. They should have 12v at all times. Mine, did not. I had a break in the wire somewhere. I did not find the break but did run a new hot wire to the MFI, complete with 30a fuse. The car fired right up. Hopefully some of this information will help others with smilar issues. No Spark, No Fuel - check for power at the MFI first. It runs everything!

Thank you all who posted with help, I really do appreciate it! If anyone needs the information or diagrams I have obtained, feel free to PM me and I will do my best to make it available. Later.....

Awesome that you found your problem, even for a newbie you did a good job finding out your diagnoses you were having.

Also the SAFC is a good head start to get the feeling of tuning your car, until you get ECMLink.

 

[juggernot5200]

Alright, I am back again. . So upon further inspection of the car, I realized that it is not the original engine. I thought the CAS Mod had been done, but in reality, the camshaft sensor was supposed to be on the opposite side of the engine to begin with. I reversed the firing order based on a 95 and it was actually the correct firing order for a 97 or newer. I also tried to switch the injectors and it would not run at all. (Which makes sense since reversing it completely screwed up the injector timing.) Anyway, I am still finding new things about this car all the time. . It is still not running right, so I was just wondering if anyone had an engine diagram of the 97-99 4g63? Any help would be greatly appreciated. It is almost there, just gotta work out the bugs. .

Thanks turbotom, I appreciate that. It was a pain in the butt, but I knew I would figure it out eventually. Especially with the help from the members of this site! I may be new to the site, but I have been around the block a few times. . Later....