2G N/T Performance Chip??

[flashy]

Does anyone have or know anything about a performance chip for the 2G n/t dms. I hear of people adding 30hp with them. Just haven't heard of people with DSM's doing it.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Does anyone have or know anything about a performance chip for the 2G n/t dms. I hear of people adding 30hp with them. Just haven't heard of people with DSM's doing it.

stand up indoors, put your head down and look at the ground... now run as fast as you can!

ok sorry but just search, you will see that there are no "magic chips" or anything like that for our cars, they arent hondas. the closest thing to that is the af/x ecu, which is only for 97 MT, which i didnt check what year you are. otherwise you got the S-afc or megasquirt or E-manage, if you dont want to go to a full stand alone. all of those you have to tune tho, they arent plug and play like the ecu is or any of the magic chips

 

[flashy]

but i like magic.....

thanks for your reply, i didn't think there was anything. i've been searching for some time now.

 

[Redmachine]

yeah unfortunatly af/x only makes it for 97's and thats it. We don't even get love from hypertech. And from what I've heard stay away from the venom box.

 

[flashy]

Does anyone know what is different about a 97? I was always under the impression that the only difference from a 95096 to a 97-99 was front and rear bumper, side skirts and lights.

 

[Redmachine]

Does anyone know what is different about a 97? I was always under the impression that the only difference from a 95096 to a 97-99 was front and rear bumper, side skirts and lights.

I'm guessing that it's the only model with a programable ECU, kind of like the eprom for the 4g guys. That might not be right so don't quote me until we have coroberation from the other n/t guys

 

[GSGoinFast]

I'm guessing that it's the only model with a programable ECU, kind of like the eprom for the 4g guys. That might not be right so don't quote me until we have coroberation from the other n/t guys

no the 96-99 ecu's are all the same. the 95 is an obd I system and is completely different, the only thing different about the 96-99 ecu's are the pin #'s and harnesses. so you can re-wire your harness for the 97 if you really wanted to, although i dont know the pin differences. oh yeah the 98-99 have the same pin #'s... why howell made it for the 97, instead of making it for 2 years with one ecu by making it for the 98-99 i have no clue

 

[bullettdsm]

At the risk of facing the wrath of GSGoinFast; ya couldn't let Flashy get by without a wiseass comment, huh ? And further more, what is the story with the AF/X 97 ECU? Have not heard of it yet. I have a 97 and am interested in tuning it. Hi jack the thread a little by not searching? Well, maybe

Oh yeah, what is a 97 MT?

 

[Redmachine]

At the risk of facing the wrath of GSGoinFast; ya couldn't let Flashy get by without a wiseass comment, huh ? And further more, what is the story with the AF/X 97 ECU? Have not heard of it yet. I have a 97 and am interested in tuning it. Hi jack the thread a little by not searching? Well, maybe

Oh yeah, what is a 97 MT?

manual transmission

 

[GSGoinFast]

At the risk of facing the wrath of GSGoinFast; ya couldn't let Flashy get by without a wiseass comment, huh ? And further more, what is the story with the AF/X 97 ECU? Have not heard of it yet. I have a 97 and am interested in tuning it. Hi jack the thread a little by not searching? Well, maybe

Oh yeah, what is a 97 MT?

Nope! i think we all got atleast one or two of those when we were noobs, we have to pass the tradition on.

ya MT is for Manual Transmission.

 

[BigRand]

While we are on the topic of difference between our 2G NT's 95-99, I thought that 96-99 has a different type of fuel system too, (the "late fuel" system or something) I was reading when I was checking out the hahn website. But I'm sure that also has to do with the OBD 1 ECU etc.

 

[dr1665]

I've seen enough of these threads about chips to know enough to skim the comments for what I wanted to mention. Since I didn't see it, I will say this to anyone with a 420A who wants an electronic mod for their ECU that will grow with them as they build the car.

Megasquirt.

You can build it yourself or you can find others to sell them complete and you install it. They cost less than the SAFC and give you total fuel and ignition control. It's a stand alone, but not a full stand alone. You will still need your ECU, but it will no longer have anything to do with fuel or spark calculations.

The AFX ECU makes power by moving a couple limiters up or removing them altogether, by changing fuel maps and advancing timing (why people are so scared to boost with them). Guess what? You have a MSnS (Megasquirt n Spark), you can adjust your own fuel maps and advance timing all you want.

You need to do your homework on this one, but I'm telling you. I've been talking to people going to the shootout this year and almost everyone is installing MSnS on their cars. Nitrous, turbo, all motor. You can tune for anything and all of them at the same time. If you're seriously interested in this level-the-playing-field item, head over to Megasquirt forums and read up some of the posts about the 420A.

I'm building a 9,000rpm, high-compression (big, classified at this time) turbocharged 420A this summer with water and maybe even nitrous injection. The MSnS is making it not only possible, but almost easy too.



Forget chips and that. Do it up right my 420A brothers.

 

[speedy13]

amen to that ^.oh and 95's are obd-11 as well.although they are diferent from any other 2gnt ecu.I know this because i used to put the scanner at work all the time to erase my cel.

 

[dsmmyth]

Does anyone have or know anything about a performance chip for the 2G n/t dms. I hear of people adding 30hp with them. Just haven't heard of people with DSM's doing it.

Bwahaha, I bought one off of eBay like 1 year ago. I thought I was cool when I bought it. But once it gets here, you don't even want to put something like that on your car. The instructions are all ghetto. Like...ziptie the transformer to this hose and tape this to this.

I wouldn't fool around with it.

 

[speedy13]

don't feel bad i had one of those in my car for a couple of months too.all it does is tell the iat that it's like 32 deegrees outside so it hrows more gas in your engine and advances timing a liitle.in old school terms it's like leaving the choke on.but since our cars are already kinda rich they probaly lose power instead of gaining.

 

[bullettdsm]

I've seen enough of these threads about chips to know enough to skim the comments for what I wanted to mention. Since I didn't see it, I will say this to anyone with a 420A who wants an electronic mod for their ECU that will grow with them as they build the car.

Megasquirt.

You can build it yourself or you can find others to sell them complete and you install it. They cost less than the SAFC and give you total fuel and ignition control. It's a stand alone, but not a full stand alone. You will still need your ECU, but it will no longer have anything to do with fuel or spark calculations.

The AFX ECU makes power by moving a couple limiters up or removing them altogether, by changing fuel maps and advancing timing (why people are so scared to boost with them). Guess what? You have a MSnS (Megasquirt n Spark), you can adjust your own fuel maps and advance timing all you want.

You need to do your homework on this one, but I'm telling you. I've been talking to people going to the shootout this year and almost everyone is installing MSnS on their cars. Nitrous, turbo, all motor. You can tune for anything and all of them at the same time. If you're seriously interested in this level-the-playing-field item, head over to Megasquirt forums and read up some of the posts about the 420A.

I'm building a 9,000rpm, high-compression (big, classified at this time) turbocharged 420A this summer with water and maybe even nitrous injection. The MSnS is making it not only possible, but almost easy too.



Forget chips and that. Do it up right my 420A brothers.

Ok dr1665, this is the point that I am at. I need to decide stand alone, ECU, MegaSquirt, SAFC etc. I am old school engine builder and we did eveything by carb + cam. I am not quite up on this computer tuning stuff. I know that I will need to do some research but my question becomes, how difficult it is to tune for a novice computer guy who understands cars (and has raced strip and off road)? I am just about done with the bolt-on thing and will not do my internals untill I blow up engine . Tuning seems to be impossible without the before mentioned computer add-ons. All things being equal, I would like to go with Mega. In your opinion, what's the learning curve for someone who is computer literate but not a programmer?
MB

 

[speedy13]

bro yuor easiest bet in my opinion is get an s-afc,go to a dyno and get it tuned for what you got now.if you get nitrous later on you can tune for when your on the juice,if you decide to cam it, you will be better of with a safc anyways.i can't say much about megasquirt because i'm not familiar with it,but if you have time and a couple of botes of visine,go to their site and read up on their system,they also explain very well how a computer based engine works in terms anyone thats a car guy will undrstand if you study it.hell print it out man and read it with time.if you can tune carburator wich is hard as hell you can understand how these sensor work.

 

[Redmachine]

carbs are a hell of alot easier to tune than computer controlled fuel injection. 2 to 3 screws thats it, and it can be done by sound.

 

[bullettdsm]

carbs are a hell of alot easier to tune than computer controlled fuel injection. 2 to 3 screws thats it, and it can be done by sound.

Yeah, amen to that!

 

[speedy13]

yes if touched by the right hand.you can really #### things up if you don't.wich the same aplies for electronic tuning i guess.since i am from a new generation,carbs are astrange to me more than fuel injection,thus for my answer.peace

 

[dr1665]

Ok dr1665, this is the point that I am at. I need to decide stand alone, ECU, MegaSquirt, SAFC etc.

Let me put it this way:

SAFC: About $350, piggy back in every sense of the word, modifies sensor inputs to have the OEM ECU adjust fuel trims(and to some degree spark), tried and true, does what it claims to do.

Full Stand Alone: ~$1500 (plus install), no base maps, every parameter must be input in order to get the car to even idle (high degree of specialization, ideal for track only professional racers), there is little, if any, interest by companies such as AEM to provide even the most basic of maps to the 2GNT community.

MSnS: ~$330 built and shipped to you (can be built DIY for much less), provides complete fuel adjustment (not just some vague percentage of correction), provides total ignition timing control, bypasses the OEM ECU completely in terms of fuel and spark (the ECU still thinks its doing something, but it isn't even connected to the injectors anymore) can come with built in controls for water injection, accepts wideband input, can come with controls for stutter box/launch control, can come with traction control, can come with boost controller, currently has a large base of experienced 2GNT tuners developing the code to allow for even more options.

I don't see how there is a question here.

I am old school engine builder and we did eveything by carb + cam.

(insert Tim, the Tool Man, Taylor, style grunting here)

how difficult it is to tune for a novice computer guy who understands cars (and has raced strip and off road)?

If you know things like which AFR you want to be running when and where, or what sort of voltage you need to see from the wideband O2 and what to do with ignition timing in order to avoid knock in order for your engine to be happy at the limits of tune, then you could figure this out.

I am just about done with the bolt-on thing and will not do my internals untill I blow up engine .

Haha. Good times. I'd wait to have the spare block ready to go in before getting gnarly with the stocker. Buddy of mine here has stated he will be going to the track with a flatbed and a truck when his 2.4L long block is ready to go in, as he will be cranking up the boost to 15-20psi on his old stocker.

Tuning seems to be impossible without the before mentioned computer add-ons.

With these modern, computer controlled cars, you have to be able to either bypass or replace the stock ECU in order to really go places. The factory ECU is designed to cater to the lowest common denominator: the drievr who just drives the car. How boring is that?

All things being equal, I would like to go with Mega.

The only problem I have with the MSnS is its overly ### sounding name. I mean, come on! Who wants to tell other gear heads they installed something called Megasquirt in their car? Sure, it's the absolute best value in terms of price, features and ease of use, but that name is so bad. Ugh.

In your opinion, what's the learning curve for someone who is computer literate but not a programmer?

Personally, although I have yet to install this, I think that it is more important you know what you need your car to be doing than to be computer literate.

From my experiences, once you start to go MSnS, everyone else with one is all about helping you to get on the road with it. I don't see many people over here converting, but you will find a large deal of experienced members of 2GNT.com going this route. Shoot. I owe DeVry over $50k towards my degree in computer programming and I coldn't write code to make a window pop up that says "Hello world!"

Fact of the matter is, once you install MSnS, you have all the control you would ever need to go any route you want with your motor. You want to build a high compression all motor monster for a couple years? MSnS gives you the basic fuel and spark control to squeeze every last pony out of that bi***. You get tired of all motor and want to boost her? Now you can pull your timing in the top end to avoid detonation with those high comp slugs getting pressurized and you can control your boost while adding a little water injection to the mix as its needed. Want to spray that fat snail up to full boost? You can have MSnS determine when to spray and how much to squeeze. It blows me away to see all the things this system is capable of and it's getting better and more advanced every day.

I'm actually more excited about installing my MSnS than I am my turbo! You can do it, and the rest of us can help you.

 

[Redmachine]

I downloaded the Megasquirt manual and it says it doesn't control spark, you need a seperate unit to control that. MS only takes car of the fuel

 

[bullettdsm]

dr1665, thanks for the informative reply. I have looked on 2gnt.com and have seen various positions on each (with one hardliner not moving from AEM's stand alone which there is debate as to wether they actually have one! Must be an AEM employee?). Anyway you give food for thought and I am deciding between tried and true SAFC II or Mega - MSnS - whatever you want to call it (but I am NOT going to call it by their name!). You're right, it can't go over too well in the pits.

Thanks again for the info, appreciate
MB

 

[GSGoinFast]

DR: Can the mega squirt raise the rev limiter of the engine?

lets make up a new name for it... a 2gnt community name for the megasquirt, something a little less g a y!!!(whoo hoo beat the system!)

 

[dr1665]

DR: Can the mega squirt raise the rev limiter of the engine?

MSnS (for Megasquirt'n'Spark), which is what everyone I know calls it, is capable of performing all the fuel calculations it needs all the way up to ~15,000rpm. You would need to balance the hell out of any engine running anywhere close to those speeds, but I'm building for a 9,000rpm redline. Add my high compression, tall Crower cams, and a fat turbo with some decent lag, I'm thinking this will be one hell of a summer vacation. Even if that vacation is only the two weeks I take driving to and from the DSM Shootout in Ohio come August.

I mentioned the point of contact to both of you guys in your PMs tonight. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to unplug for a bit and get this DVD drive installed. And have another beer or three.