2g head on 6bolt block die'n issue

[jen_cairo]

Ok I just recently finished my 2g turbo head and 6 bolt block conversion. I am running in to a problem because it seems in order to set the timing correctly the Cas will not line up. So its either way advanced or way re-tarted. I had a Cas installed but the car would idle but would die randomly. I re-wired another Cas now it don't die unless you stop giving it gas. I'm very confused as to what is happening. If someone can help I would highly appreciate it.

If you need any other info I can do my best to supply the answers.

thank you
Jennifer

 

[viperlp01]

What I ussually do is get the cas as much in the middle as i can. Then I will get the car running and adjust the biss screw to set the idle where I want it. Once you get the car idling ok then it is way easier to do anything. Then you can adjust the cas and then adjust the biss to get the idle in line. When you move the cas the idle changes alot.

 

[flinguist]

What CAS are you using? This PDF from Magnus has a lot of good info. on 6 bolt swap methods, including CAS configurations. http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/tech/1gina2g.pdf

 

[jen_cairo]

I have tried 2 cas. At this point the timing is dead on although the bolt do not line up to screw it down so i have it zipped tied because it seems no one has a real answer. I tried centering it and its way off timing. and I also tried screwing the biss screw and that don't seem to do anything.


What is happening now is, if I push the gas pedal down a decent amount and let off right away it dies. If I ease the gas pedal and ease off most of the time it stays idling on its own. Although the RPM's fluctuate about 500RPM's.

Has any one experienced this??
WTF

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Get a 6 bolt CAS and a timing light.

 

[jen_cairo]

Get a 6 bolt CAS and a timing light.

I have 2 6 bolt cas as I said earlier and thats how I checked the timing...........

 

[rx7ttlm]

Ok, so if you have dsm link or access to a data logging suit. Such as snapon code scanners. Make sure your airflow per rev is in the 28 range for a 2.0.

Ground the ecu timing jumper, and set base timing to 5 degrees btdc on the #1 cyl. This is all assuming you have the correct wiring for the swap (like magnus or road race cas adapter). The engine will hunt a little when you set timing, keep in mind when you change something like that its going to have to relearn some things. Then after you set timing, Tighten the cas bolts and reset the Base Idle Set screw to I think the 30 range for idle speed sensor reading. and make sure your engine RPM is on target for what you want it to be.

*hint, if your crank pulley is dirty it can be helpful to clean it or use a black sharpie on the rim, and some liquid paper (white writing correction paint) to make the flashes easier to see.

If your running big cams and other mods with something like DSM link, make sure the config files / settings you think are in the computer actually are still there like idle speed and global settings.

the link is for cas wiring
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g95-96M2.htm

 

[jen_cairo]

Ok, so if you have dsm link or access to a data logging suit. Such as snapon code scanners. Make sure your airflow per rev is in the 28 range for a 2.0.

Ground the ecu timing jumper, and set base timing to 5 degrees btdc on the #1 cyl. This is all assuming you have the correct wiring for the swap (like magnus or road race cas adapter). The engine will hunt a little when you set timing, keep in mind when you change something like that its going to have to relearn some things. Then after you set timing, Tighten the cas bolts and reset the Base Idle Set screw to I think the 30 range for idle speed sensor reading. and make sure your engine RPM is on target for what you want it to be.

*hint, if your crank pulley is dirty it can be helpful to clean it or use a black sharpie on the rim, and some liquid paper (white writing correction paint) to make the flashes easier to see.

If your running big cams and other mods with something like DSM link, make sure the config files / settings you think are in the computer actually are still there like idle speed and global settings.

the link is for cas wiring
RRE Instructions

I have a safc, where would you look to see the airflow? because I believe mine is not that high at all..? I am new to tuning. But i did mark my crank pulley with liquid white out so i can see it clearly when im setting the timing. I got the wiring diagram from magnus the cas is wired correct but still is not in range to bolt it down. But it is set perfectly in spec.

 

[delta448]

Jen, did you remember to swap the injector plugs and spark plug wires? If you did, then did you check to make sure the CAS isn't 180 out?

It sounds to me like the injector firing order is wrong right now.
page 8 of the Magnus pdf

 

[TurboAnything]

Sounds like you have another issue somewhere. Moving the cas all the way one direction or the other will not cause the car to idle that bad. Pm me if you need some local help.

 

[jen_cairo]

Jen, did you remember to swap the injector plugs and spark plug wires? If you did, then did you check to make sure the CAS isn't 180 out?

It sounds to me like the injector firing order is wrong right now.
page 8 of the Magnus pdf

Yes i did i swapped 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 correct?

If i didnt know any better i think something is wrong with my injectors.

Currently Im trying to find 450cc or trade straight up for my 550cc rc.

 

[delta448]

For the injectors, swap injector plugs like this:
cylinder 1's injector plug goes to cylinder 2's injector
cylinder 2's injector plug goes to cylinder 4's injector
cylinder 3's injector plug goes to cylinder 1's injector
cylinder 4's injector plug goes to cylinder 3's injector

Or, if you'd rather, you can swap ECU pins like this:
pin 1 goes to pin 14
pin 2 goes to pin 1
pin 15 goes to pin 2
pin 14 goes to pin 15

The ignition is easier to fix since DSMs use a wasted spark ignition (each plug fires both on compression stroke and exhaust stroke for each cylinder). For the coils you'd just swap spark plug wires 1 and 4 with the ones from 2 and 3, -or you could swap two ECU pins (pins 10 and 23) in order to switch the signals to the power transistor for the two coils.

 

[clockworktoy]

The sensor should line up with the 2 holes on the head, that is unless you have some other head that doens't have these holes. By having the cam sensor not properly secured it moves around and can cause your car to run like crap by randomly adding/removing timing. Posting up a pic would help greatly.

 

[jen_cairo]

The sensor should line up with the 2 holes on the head, that is unless you have some other head that doens't have these holes. By having the cam sensor not properly secured it moves around and can cause your car to run like crap by randomly adding/removing timing. Posting up a pic would help greatly.

I understand there are 2 holes in the head to screw it down which mine does. And yes I understand if it moves a little it can cause the car to run like crap. This is why i check the timing daily. Im trying to figure out why it is not in reach for me to bolt it down. But the timing is dead on. I will try to get pics if you dont understand. Thank You

For the injectors, swap injector plugs like this:
cylinder 1's injector plug goes to cylinder 2's injector
cylinder 2's injector plug goes to cylinder 4's injector
cylinder 3's injector plug goes to cylinder 1's injector
cylinder 4's injector plug goes to cylinder 3's injector

Or, if you'd rather, you can swap ECU pins like this:
pin 1 goes to pin 14
pin 2 goes to pin 1
pin 15 goes to pin 2
pin 14 goes to pin 15

The ignition is easier to fix since DSMs use a wasted spark ignition (each plug fires both on compression stroke and exhaust stroke for each cylinder). For the coils you'd just swap spark plug wires 1 and 4 with the ones from 2 and 3, -or you could swap two ECU pins (pins 10 and 23) in order to switch the signals to the power transistor for the two coils.

ok and this is for a 6 bolt bottom end and 2g top end correct? Because I believe I have that wrong then. And what is the firing order from head to coil just to make sure? Thank you

 

[delta448]

ok and this is for a 6 bolt bottom end and 2g top end correct? Because I believe I have that wrong then.

It's for anytime a 2Ga ECU uses a non-2Ga CAS signal. The signal from the 2Ga CAS is inverted compared to all others, to sync the injectors the firing order changes as above.

And what is the firing order from head to coil just to make sure? Thank you

Not sure what you mean? The actual cylinder firing order stays the same, 1-3-4-2, but the signals have to be changed to account for the differences in the CPS/CAS signals the ECU uses.

 

[jen_cairo]

It's for anytime a 2Ga ECU uses a non-2Ga CAS signal. The signal from the 2Ga CAS is inverted compared to all others, to sync the injectors the firing order changes as above.

Not sure what you mean? The actual cylinder firing order stays the same, 1-3-4-2, but the signals have to be changed to account for the differences in the CPS/CAS signals the ECU uses.

What is the wire location from head to coil pack?
And are you saying that i need to change the wires in the ecu as well? I change the injector harness around correctly. But when I go to give it gas it only spikes up to about 1400rpm and goes bask down....

 

[delta448]

Standing in front of the car, from left to right on the head is #4-3-2-1. On the coils, the left one is originally the 1-4 coil, it's now the 2-3 coil, unless the coil pack wiring, ECU wiring or power transistor wiring has been changed already. If you get the coils backwards the car won't run when using the correct ignition timing. Just for reference, pin 10 at the ECU should have continuity with pin 7 (labeled BL in Brian's post) of the PT, ECU pin 23 with pin 2 of the PT (labeled BrR) and the blue wire with the red stripe should be the rear pin of the triangular coil pack connector, the blue wire with the black stripe should be on the trans side of the connector.

If you changed the injector harnesses you don't need to change any ECU wires for the injectors.

It probably only reaches 1400 because your base timing is so far off, or you still have the timing adjust connector grounded.

 

[IgotBoost91]

Did you say trade for 450cc injectors?

 

[jen_cairo]

Did you say trade for 450cc injectors?

yea for 20 bucks more ill trade

Standing in front of the car, from left to right on the head is #4-3-2-1. On the coils, the left one is originally the 1-4 coil, it's now the 2-3 coil, unless the coil pack wiring, ECU wiring or power transistor wiring has been changed already. If you get the coils backwards the car won't run when using the correct ignition timing. Just for reference, pin 10 at the ECU should have continuity with pin 7 (labeled BL in Brian's post) of the PT, ECU pin 23 with pin 2 of the PT (labeled BrR) and the blue wire with the red stripe should be the rear pin of the triangular coil pack connector, the blue wire with the black stripe should be on the trans side of the connector.

If you changed the injector harnesses you don't need to change any ECU wires for the injectors.

It probably only reaches 1400 because your base timing is so far off, or you still have the timing adjust connector grounded.

timing adjust connector grounded. By this do you mean the ground that goes to the battery for the timing light? Or does any one have a pic? im not to sure of what your talking about.

 

[delta448]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/1809125-post4.html

 

[jen_cairo]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/1809125-post4.html

I was wondering what that was for along with the blue plug bc mine arent plugged in....So i have to make sure its not grounding its self correct?

I was wondering what that was for along with the blue plug bc mine arent plugged in....So i have to make sure its not grounding its self correct?

And if I dont change the other signals the wires on the head go into 4-3-2-1 and standing in front of the engine the wires on coil go in order of 1-3-4-2??

 

[delta448]

So i have to make sure its not grounding its self correct?

It must be grounded to command the ECU to not change ignition timing, and to force it to run at base timing only.

And if I dont change the other signals the wires on the head go into 4-3-2-1 and standing in front of the engine the wires on coil go in order of 1-3-4-2

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[jen_cairo]

It must be grounded to command the ECU to not change ignition timing, and to force it to run at base timing only.

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And how do you ground that goldish plug? it has the piece over it so it looks like the one in the pic.

 

[delta448]

Create continuity with the connector's pin and chassis ground.

You'll notice with it grounded that the car will idle considerably lower. If you're still using those larger injectors without proper tuning compensation this could cause the engine to stall. How well is the SAFC dialed in?

 

[jen_cairo]

Create continuity with the connector's pin and chassis ground.

so just make sure I ground the end to the firewall? how would I get it to stay in contact?

And I am tuning with an safc.