2g dsm idle issues and afrs at idle 13.8 to 15.5

[AWDtalontsi96]

So I just finished up a 3 year build and car runs , but runs like crap.

At start up idle afr's go off the aem wide band gauge. Once warmed up afrs go to 13.8 to like 15.4. No idle surge. but do to afr's going up and down idle does move roughly 900 to 1100 rpms. If I do try and drive it the sec I get in the car and go to move it the the rpms drop to like 500 to 600 rpms and car wants to die.

Car is a 1996 eagle talon awd 5 speed. with 6 bolt swap. block and head. running 98/99 reflashable ecu with ceddy mods evo 9 big maps. plus 3in gm maf with maft and the maf is brand new. Running 98/99 cam sensor , kiggly crank sensor. So basicly it is setup like a 7 bolt sensor wise. Stock 1g intake , 65mm TB.com 1g TB. evo 8 injectors just for break in and scaled to factory numbers. FBR twin walbro 255 fuel setup. both pumps have their own 12volt 30amp power source so they getting plenty of power. Running 1mm os valves , ported head , 280 gsc 11.7m/11.7mm cams. aero fpr . Fuel pressure set around 42psi at idle with vac hose off. maybe 38psi with vac hose connected Boost gauge reads right 8 to 10 psi of vac around 1100 rpms. using evo scan to log everything. running 5 dgrees of timming at idle stft trims are like 12 to 20% correction. I know its suppose to be no more the 5% correction. Again injectors are scaled to mitsu specs from a evo 8. Every sensor in this car is brand new and oem or oem replacement. Harness as been gone throw and cleaned up.

Looked for boost leaks. Plus gone around every gasket and fitting with carb cleaner. If there was a leak at idle it would suck the fluid in and either make the motor race or kill it. Nothing. I am stumped

 

[Dsmkauai]

You can't really look for a boost leak bro you need to do a proper boost leak test. Also did you verify timing is dead on?

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

Going to home depot today to build a boost leak tester and we will see. Just want to get other peoples opinions . Maybe I'm over looking something or I am just over thinking it and it is as simple as a boost leak.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Honestly seems like you have alot going on bro. I'm thinking it alittle in the tune and a small boost leak. Maybe try using the 2g maps instead of the evo9. I mean do you even have the maft dialed in yet?

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

Honestly seems like you have alot going on bro. I'm thinking it alittle in the tune and a small boost leak. Maybe try using the 2g maps instead of the evo9. I mean do you even have the maft dialed in yet?

Well the evo 9 big maps are the 2g maps just bigger ie load and higher rpm range. The maft is set at 4.2.0.0. which from what I read is basically stock. and all my tuning is directly throw the ecu.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Just saying something ain't jivin right and I'd suspect tune or boost leak. Did you verify timing is correct?

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

No boost leaks from what I can hear or see. Put in about 15 lbs air and boost gauge in car drops maybe 1 to 2 lbs of a sec. That is typical right? a cold engine some air will escape past the rings correct ? I mean that's why we get crank case pressure. If there was a leak the air would escape a lot quicker. I am kinda thinking the car is just so heavily modified it needs a to be tuned and tweaked. Not just on the dyno. but base tuning , idle and timing tweaking. injector scaling etc etc.

Also my injectors wires are in the stock 2g setup . I had them clocked cause its a 6 bolt swap , but then after talking to RRE and Magnus I was told to run it like a 7 bolt cause I have a 7 bolt crank and cam sensor along with the 98 ecu.

Timing is right on where it should be

I never build this crazy of a setup. I had a evo and other dsm making like 400whp. I kinda build this car to make 700. Like you said there is a lot going on. I am guessing with the crazy lift and duration on the cams and such low vacuum at idle the stock ecu maps just cant handle it.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Well that's some good news I guess bro. I was thinking the same thing bro you've done so much to the setup its probably going to take some time to get every little thing dialed in right. Seems like you have alot of fuel for such small injectors to. I would be able to help more if I had a log to look at, but its pretty hard to say what it could be from just the info you've shared. Anyway bro hope you get it figured out!

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

Yeah. I have done a few logs and really the only thing I see off is the ecu is adjusting stft up to 20% which it only should be within a 5% correction. +or- . I updated my mod list in my profile so you can everything I am working with. Another thing is the injectors are old evo 8 injectors. Been kicking around the top draw of tool box for maybe a year. They didn't even fire when I first got them. I had to shock them with straight 9 volts to get them to free themselves cause the motors were stuck closed. So I think I will bring the car and the new injectors to my tuner and let him do his thing. Thanks for the help

 

[Dsmkauai]

Oh man I bet that's why the a/r are so all over the place bro. I'd bet the injector spray pattern is horrible if they are even spraying probably dripping. They are probably so far off from eachother your ecu doesn't know what to think. I'd say that's a wise idea bro get good injectors and help with the tune!

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

haha , well they were free. Plus I know the stock scaling. I just wanted something they would give me a quick start up on a fresh motor. Didn't feel like fighting with aftermarket injectors washing down new cylinders with huge injectors.. Ill repost the out come when I drop in the new injectors and get it tuned

 

[Dsmkauai]

Ya I hear ya bro. I hope you get it figured out, seems like you just need to dial it in alittle better. Oh how many miles on the motor? Are you or did you break it in properly? My next build I'm shooting for the same power goal!

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

Ya I hear ya bro. I hope you get it figured out, seems like you just need to dial it in alittle better. Oh how many miles on the motor? Are you or did you break it in properly? My next build I'm shooting for the same power goal!

I ordered my fic blue max 1250cc tonight. I have driven the car maybe 10 miles. I did break in. Primed the motor by just cranking it with no spark plugs in to get the oil flowing. Got it fired up , ran it for 20 minutes or so with royal purple break in oil. Then changed the oil , oil filter and clean the screen on the preturbo oil filter. Then fresh oil and took for a 10 minute drive. couldn't drive it any more then that. stock fuel sending unit started leaking fuel cause the guy who welded the -6 fittings left pin holes and the jb weld that was sealing up the pin holes broke free and started leaking fuel. So back into the garage and ordered the full blown motor sports dual pump kit which fixed that problem. then a new problem came up. My TB was sticking and I did have a small boost leak. Plus bad idle surge due to the TB sticking open a little. So TB went back out and came back Friday. Reinstalled and idle surge was gone. That's when I really noticed the afr's all over the place.

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

Fic injectors installed and scaled them. stft -.09 to 1.2% correction. Doesn't get much better then that. car runs super smooth.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Sick bro! glad to hear your running smooth again and everything you fixed made the difference you needed. With the blue max 1250's did you have to change anything to run them or is it plug and play?

 

[AWDtalontsi96]

Sick bro! glad to hear your running smooth again and everything you fixed made the difference you needed. With the blue max 1250's did you have to change anything to run them or is it plug and play?

Just plug and play. of course had to scale them too. Just got back from doing a little street tuning. turned it up from 16 to 22 psi. leaned it out a little more. like mid 10's good enough for driving around on till it goes on the dyno for its full tune. Also turned rev limit from 7500 to 8200. Still not enough for the that motor and turbo. When I shift at 8000 it falls out of boost just enough to make the car dip. So ill up the rev limit to 9000 and try shifting at 8500 maybe 8700. No knock in the motor. now correct me if I am wrong , but doesn't the stock 2g have a weak timing map or is it over aggressive like the evo's?