2G AWD Front camber increased by a degree in one year

[DGajre777]

I got an alignment yesterday after a year and I'm confused.

Parts on car:
- Tokico Illuminas (set to 5 all around)
- Eibach Pro springs
- RRE rear camber kit
- No Front camber kit
- Stock bushings (not replaced)
- All parts in the shock assembly from the shock to the top nut are new.

I got an alignment after installed the shocks and springs on 08/20/07. After the alignment on 08/20/2007, my specs were:

Left Front
Camber -0.7 (out of spec - range should be 0.4 to -0.6 but I wasn't worried since it was under a deg)
Caster 3.7
Toe 0.00

Right Front
Camber -1.0 (out of spec - range should be -0.6 to 0.4 but I wasn't worried since it was a deg)
Caster 5.3
Toe 0.02

Front Total Toe 0.02
Steer Ahead -0.01

Left Rear
Camber -1.1
Toe 0.12

Right Rear
Camber -1.0
Toe 0.11

Rear Total Toe 0.24
Thrust Angle 0.01

I got an alignment a year later on 08/19/2008 and after the alignment, my current specs are:

Left Front
Camber -0.5
Caster 4.5
Toe 0.02

Right Front
Camber -2.0 (out of spec - range should be between -0.6 to 0.4 or -1 like before)
Caster 5.5
Toe 0.00

Front Total Toe 0.02
Steer Ahead -0.01

Left Rear
Camber -0.7 (out of spec - range should be between -0.8 to -1.8)
Toe 0.14

Right Rear
Camber -1.7
Toe 0.14

Rear Total Toe 0.28
Thrust Angle 0.00

I have three questions for anyone that has an answer:
1) How did my front right camber go from negative 1 deg. to negative 2 deg. in a year?
2) How did my left rear camber go from -1.1 deg to -0.7 (out of spec) in a year? and
3) How did my right rear camber go from -1.0 to -1.7 deg in a year?

I'm thinking bad bushings... I looked under the car and found one service crack but nothing that was torn.

Any ideas?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Interesting, for sure.
My first instinct was tired bushings, like you mentioned.

Have you nailed a curb or anything over the last year?

Maybe the problem is partly due to the alignment jobs themselves. What I mean is maybe the car wasn't properly setup or measured in the first place...or second place.

I also thought it interesting that you gained nearly a degree of caster on the driver's side.

Wish I had an answer.

 

[DGajre777]

Have you nailed a curb or anything over the last year?

Yes, I did hit a huge pot hole about a year ago and it shook the car. I remember hitting the front right on that pot hole but I didn't expect it to mess my alignment up by that much. I'm probably guessing I busted or put stress on a bushing somewhere.

Maybe the problem is partly due to the alignment jobs themselves. What I mean is maybe the car wasn't properly setup or measured in the first place...or second place.

I thought about that too. I'll get an alignment check from another place and see what my readings are.

 

[daren_p]

I wouldn't be alarmed if my camber was more negative a year after first having an alignment done, after just installing new lowering springs. Most springs tend to settle abit over time, so I would assume this would give you more negative camber. Also like was mentioned, bushings could be abit more worn, test results weren't 100% accurate, etc.

 

[Locke]

Same alignment shop both times? Did they set the car on unpinned floats while taking measurements? (Ask me why I would even ask that second question, if you can't figure it out.)

 

[DGajre777]

Same alignment shop both times? Did they set the car on unpinned floats while taking measurements? (Ask me why I would even ask that second question, if you can't figure it out.)

No, different alignment shop. The original one didn't have boards to drive my car up on the alignment rack. As for the floats, I don't know if they were unpinned, but the car wasn't straight (I don't know if that makes a difference).

 

[slipstream808]

^^^I dunno, I think that would make things different.^^^

 

[Locke]

No, the bobs measure relative to each other, not the rack, so parking crooked on the rack won't affect it.

Springs settling or damaged isolators, perhaps?

 

[DGajre777]

No, the bobs measure relative to each other, not the rack, so parking crooked on the rack won't affect it.

Springs settling or damaged isolators, perhaps?

Isolators are new. Springs settling - maybe. I've never heard of anyone with Eibach Pro's with a 2 deg. negative camber.

 

[92awddsm]

Isolators are new. Springs settling - maybe. I've never heard of anyone with Eibach Pro's with a 2 deg. negative camber.

Dont underestimate potholes. They have been known to damage wheels, tires, struts/shocks, control arms, suspension mounting points, etc. I believe you answered your own question.

 

[underradar92]

Since the left side of the car lost camber and the right side gained, my first guess is that the L-R ride heights may have changed or settled unevenly. The total change is .2* and 1* in front and .3* and .7* out back. Without knowing the accepted margins of error in this area, it still points to something of the like to me. And the aforementioned pothole factor. Does Florida have potholes?

 

[92awddsm]

Since the left side of the car lost camber and the right side gained, my first guess is that the L-R ride heights may have changed or settled unevenly. The total change is .2* and 1* in front and .3* and .7* out back. Without knowing the accepted margins of error in this area, it still points to something of the like to me. And the aforementioned pothole factor. Does Florida have potholes?

Evidently

Yes, I did hit a huge pot hole about a year ago and it shook the car. I remember hitting the front right on that pot hole but I didn't expect it to mess my alignment up by that much. I'm probably guessing I busted or put stress on a bushing somewhere.

 

[underradar92]

Oops, I hadn't noticed that was actually Dee's post. My bad.

 

[DGajre777]

I'll get an alignment check in 3 months and see if it gets any worse. In the meanwhile, I'm looking at Energy suspension bushings. I'd hate to take the shocks/springs out again to get to the bushings when I just installed them that last year.

 

[DGajre777]

I had new inner and outer tie rods replaced over the weekend and went to the "best alignment shop in town" yesterday. Front right camber still remains a bit out of spec and all bushings checked out in good condition, again.

What caught me off guard was that the owner said "if you go any more positive camber on that right front with an alignment kit, you're going to hit the inside of tire on the wheel well" WTF

Anyways, going to try the ES bushings and see if it makes a difference.

Left Front
Camber -0.8 (out of spec but acceptable with Eibach Pros)
Caster 4.0
Toe 0.03 (1/32")

Right Front
Camber -1.6 (out of spec - a bit too much negative)
Caster 4.9
Toe 0.125 (1/8")

Front Total Toe 0.15 (5/32")

Left Rear
Camber -1.2
Toe 0.09 (3/32")

Right Rear
Camber -1.6
Toe 0.03 (1/32")

Rear Total Toe 0.125 (1/8")
Thrust Angle 0.03 (1/32")