2004 Subaru WRX STI or 97 GSX

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I couldn't really find a better looking spot to post, that I'm allowed to post in, atleast from what I saw. If need be feel free to move, it'd be appreciated.


Any way, story is, I'm joining the airforce within the next 6 months so I'll be saving up some serious money. Between basic, tech school and just living on base I'll be able to save up enough to either buy a GSX right out or to put a really nice chunk of downpayment on a used 2004 WRX STI.

Honestly, I love how both cars look, and sence I'm on a DSM forum, It shows I like the DSM a bit more, but I can't really decide!

If I got the GSX I already know of a ton of things I'd wanna do.

Along the lines of -

6 Bolt 4g63 Punched .40 over

Mods -
20G or EvoIII 16G, DSMlink, Injen Cold Air, 255 Wal (Rewired), 1000 CC Injectors, Greddy FMIC with 3.5 In Short Route, 1/2 Braided Fuel Lines, ECM V3, Shep Stage 3 Race Trans, Eagle Forged Crank + Rods, ACT 2600 Clutch, Lightweight Fidanza Flywheel, Short Shift, Titanium Valves + Retainers 1 MM over, 9:1 Pistons, Magnus Race Intake Manifold, Greddy Turbo Timer, 264/272 Cams, 8 CM External Wastegate, Wideband, Yada Yada Yada it goes on and on.

But as for the Subie, I really have no clue , I'm EXTREMELY new to them.

Any Suggestions or Comments would be greatly appreciated, I know for a fact a DSM would be much much much cheaper (kinda), I'm not really interested in price as you can tell (Greddy FMIC ).

Just a little opinion would be good, feel free to throw in opinion about mods for the GSX and Subie, if I put something stupid, don't hold back.

Thanks alot guys.

 

[toofast82]

If you could buy the GSX outright, do it and avoid the payment.
I'd definitely get an Evo8-9 way before I got a STI. Reasons being:
Evo has WAY stronger engine
Stock STI is not capable of much more than stock, while EVO8 16g can net you 400whp on E85
Both cars handle and stop really well and have very nice tuning/logging options available

 

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

Well what I like about both is the AWD drive option, now that I know how it works and how it feels I couldn't go for anything less, I love how they hook up and go, and I really don't feel like dealing with wheel hop and torque steer, so FWD is out, and I don't feel like burning up tires constantly and never gripping unless I have slicks or some nice radials so RWD is out . I didn't know Evo's had a stronger motor though, I thought for sure Subies had a very strong motor, especially the boxer motors. And from what I've heard, the 04 models are the best year for Subies, anyone have any insight on that?

Also, if I got an STI, while it might be kinda slow right when I get it, I won't leave it anywhere near stock, but I've also heard STI's aren't really meant for daily driving?

 

[brownfinger]

I'm not feeling clever right now. Will someone please mock this guy shamelessly? Please?

I'd trust an '04 anything as a DD, as opposed to an older AWD DSM, but your still a fool Would anyone here recommend a Subaru over a DSM? That's how I know you really want a DSM. So you should buy a DSM. It's obvious that is the answer you wanted.

For the price of the 04 Subie, buy 3 DSMs; 2 FWD 1G dd's, and 1 2G AWD weekend toy. You could do that for $5K. At least one would be running at anytime, probably 2.

 

[mike96]

If you could buy the GSX outright, do it and avoid the payment.
I'd definitely get an Evo8-9 way before I got a STI. Reasons being:
Evo has WAY stronger engine
Stock STI is not capable of much more than stock, while EVO8 16g can net you 400whp on E85
Both cars handle and stop really well and have very nice tuning/logging options available

sorry i have both a 96 Talon AWD and an 04 STI, and i love both cars. anyone who tells you that an STI isn't good for anymore that stock is full of S#!T. the stock engine can go just about as far as a stock evo can. take a look at North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club and do some searching around there are a couple of guys kicking out about 450 - 500hp on stock internals. from what i hear yes the stock EVO is a little more spirited right off the showroom floor, but most people find the STI a better drive once they get use to driving them. biggest difference is the SUBI puts out a crap tone of torque for a four cylinder and most people just aren't use to driving them. with a set of larger injectors and a re tune and maybe an exhaust the stock STI will get you over 300 WHP with nothing else, that and they sound fabulous.

if you want something to play with and modify then i suggest the DSM. they can be just as much fun. especially if you like to mod your car
1. you wont have the payment so you will have more money to spend in the long run
2. parts for a DSM are a lot cheaper than STI stuff.

 

[pboglio]

I own both cars in question, 05 Sti and 97 GSX, they can't even be compared to each other. Like comparing a cadillac with a big V8 motor to a Rally car.

It would take a "deep, deep, deep" amount of mods and somebody willing to completely build a 97 GSX from the chassis on up and practically upgrade everything to even come near an STi and this isn't that case here. If you started with some "new" sticky low profile tires, a good set of porterfields, an MBC, and removed snorkel, you are good to go with an STi. Everybody with a DSM thinks they need to mod the hell out of these cars but that isn't the case, they are coming with 290 h.p. from the factory, arguably as much as your average modded DSM anyways.

With my 97 GSX I can't really hold the "transmission" together long at the 350-400 w.h.p., and the Subie's "motor" probably is in the same situation. In terms of having a brokeass car, what is the difference if the tranny explodes or the motor, your still not driving anywhere?

The DIFFERENCE is that I can build the STi motor to be much more reliable, and in this case the OP is already planning a built motor anyways. But there is NOTHING you can do to improve the reliability sustantantially of the 97 GSX tranny. As odd as it sounds, because of the trannys, which frankly I've spent many many many thousands of dollars on, I'd rather drop $4000 on a built STi motor once and forget about it.

 

[907dsm]

How many miles are on the Sti?? That year was very prone to the syncros grinding really bad and could lead further damage if not looked into. In this car I would say the subie reason being because of the bigger brakes, tranny, and the dccd great option on an awd car IMO. And if you plan on building the motor which I highly recommend then you should be good. Or jut get an Evo and say #### them both.

 

[Scrymerr]

if you could buy the gsx outright, do it and avoid the payment.
I'd definitely get an evo8-9 way before i got a sti. Reasons being:
Evo has way stronger engine
stock sti is not capable of much more than stock, while evo8 16g can net you 400whp on e85
both cars handle and stop really well and have very nice tuning/logging options available

+1......

 

[mike96]

weather an EVO is better than an STI is all a mater of opinion. i have over 78,000 miles on mine and have had no problems with the transmission what so ever. they have been known to handle up to 500 hp with out problems.

 

[kimcheefists]

Good luck at basic! If you plan on attending the Contemporary church services every Sunday instead of doing details, hold those tears back when they play "Letters from War" by Mark Schultz. Haha. Been in for about 2 years now and pretty much the only DSM/asian in Deutschland.

Anyway, one of my co-workers has an 05 STI and goes to the Nurburgring twice a month. His car is FAST. However, his car payments are about 400-500 a month not including insurance and bought the car for about 20,000 with 5000 down. As an airman coming straight out of tech school I wouldn't suggest going into that much debt or any debt for that matter. There's stories about airmen that think they can afford anything because they have a couple thousand dollars saved up in their banks and buy their "dream" cars when really they can't afford it.

The choice is really up to you. Personally, I would just get a GSX outright with the money you're gonna save up from basic through tech school. The monthly payments you'd be putting into the STI could be going into mods for the GSX. That's just my opinion though. Good luck!

 

[907dsm]

Great advice.. Didn't think about think about that.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

If your going to consider an STi, then consider an EVO instead.

Stock the STi might be better/fast (compared to an EVO 8), but to an EVO 9, I believe there were dynos showing stock the underated 9 dynoed more than the overated STi.

Then when it starts coming down to mods, there is no argument there, the fact is the 4G63 can make more power cheaper/less mods.

 

[pboglio]

I get the same thing from my neighbor, "Sell your STi already and get an EVO 9 like mine." Was tempted for about 5 minutes, then thought about where a ~400 w.h.p. 4g63 equipped car had gotten me in my 97 GSX. Then I came to my senses and said, nah, think I'm good at the stock 290 h.p. or whatever I'm currently making on the STi, probably more like 310 h.p. When you go thru what I went thru, you'll understand those statements. Power is not everything, and with that in mind the differences between an STi and EVO shrink to personal tastes.

The concept people don't grasp is that not everybody is going for 400 w.h.p., and if your going higher an engine rebuild is order of the day straight off. Where are you gonna buy your stronger transmission? Nowhere.
For 400 w.h.p., I'd still take an STi.

 

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

Wow there's so much info on this, this is great. I appreciate all the insight everyone has given, but theres alot of mixed reviews. I know everyone likes Evo's but for me, It doesn't work for me, I just can't do an evo . Although the 4g63 is a fantastic motor I'm sure there's much more out there. And of course if I got the STI I wouldn't keep it anywhere near stock.

Keep this going, I like all the info I'm seeing here! Offer some situations or something, its fantastic.

 

[pboglio]

I can argue both sides for an EVO. Ridden in my neighbor's plenty, and had a "helping" hand in modifying his. I like but I ain't changing at this point.

The nice thing about either over a 2g is the fact a FMIC doesn't block the radiator cause it has an over the bumper radiator duct. This is important if your going to road race for instance. Seats are nice but way too wide, they still grip you cause of the Alcantara suede, but not enough for auto-x or road-racing. Visibility is phenomenol cause you sit in the car like your sitting in a front room window, but the hood duct then goes ahead and blocks some of the view. The engine sits extremely low since its a flat-4 so you have a very upright seating position. Weird at first but you get used to it.

Six speed tranny is a tricky one, can't say for drag racing its an advantage, but for having the engine at the right rpm's for blasting out of corners, its a positive. Downshifting is scary since the gate widths are much narrower. However, the shift lever is directly connected to the tranny and so shifts are both ridiculously short and direct and easy effort.

Handling in a word is another world. You can corner and drift at high speed one handed, just like those "Topgear" episodes of the EVO's and STi's. Because of the high chassis stiffness, stiff forged wheels, and reinforced sidewall bridgestones, you can pretty much place the car in a corner where you want with supreme confidence at high speed. That stiffness also allows minimal steering lag during rapid lock-to-lock steering inputs which is what you really need for auto-x, something a 2g couldn't come close to.

The active differential also has a slight time lag kicking in midcorner, but when it does kickin the front end digs in and you get some amazing traction. This takes some trust as it takes midcorner for the diff to do its thing. Braking also is quite good, haven't faded coming off a 130 mph top speed run, and actually they may be too big for daily driving as some heat needs to be pumped into them for max braking. Might be the porterfields having this effect. Otherwise outstanding brakes given their size. A car built for blasting out of slow corners since the engine torque allows you to lug out of that slow corner in a higher gear, thus not destabilizing the suspension like that 97 GSX would force you to do by downshifting.

If you like to outlaunch your fellow motorists, then again the STi is a nice weapon. That heavier flywheel and big 2.5 liter motor does one thing well, gives you crushing off the line launches. In the case traction is dodgy, I fully lock the differential, but even then I've gotten 4 wheels spinning so it helps, to a point. At this point you should be getting the idea that alot of stuff that you would pay megabucks for, comes stock on an STi and is well integrated as a system. One downside is the Top mount I.C. which is fine at highway speeds but does heatsoak if your parked or driving slow.

The 2.5 Liter motor also doesn't require anything more than 4000-4500 rpms for a crushing slingshot launch, as long as you do the slip/dump method. Something I never even bother with my 2g as the tranny can't handle it, and the lightweight flywheel just plain isn't tailored for. Also, given the massive wheel arches, you can run 255 size tires with ease, again something a 2g ain't gonna be doing without massive rubbing or looking purely ridiculous. I could go on all day, but you get the point.

 

[fastmiteclip]

Good luck at basic! If you plan on attending the Contemporary church services every Sunday instead of doing details, hold those tears back when they play "Letters from War" by Mark Schultz. Haha. Been in for about 2 years now and pretty much the only DSM/asian in Deutschland.

Anyway, one of my co-workers has an 05 STI and goes to the Nurburgring twice a month. His car is FAST. However, his car payments are about 400-500 a month not including insurance and bought the car for about 20,000 with 5000 down. As an airman coming straight out of tech school I wouldn't suggest going into that much debt or any debt for that matter. There's stories about airmen that think they can afford anything because they have a couple thousand dollars saved up in their banks and buy their "dream" cars when really they can't afford it.

The choice is really up to you. Personally, I would just get a GSX outright with the money you're gonna save up from basic through tech school. The monthly payments you'd be putting into the STI could be going into mods for the GSX. That's just my opinion though. Good luck!

This the best advice i have ever seen a young Airman give. I have been in the AF for over 8 years and i have had troops that bought a really nice car and could not afford to put gas in it after the note payment and insurance ever month.

Save your money and get the one you can pay off. After you been in a bit and make some more money upgrade.

 

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

Thanks for all the posts guys I really apprieciate it, and especially the posts coming from the guys who are already in the AF, its very helpful. I think at this point Pboglio broke the door open. Great info, the car sounds amazing, if anything I'd like to atleast test drive one sometime, but like the AF guys stated, the payments would be ludicrous. For now I'll go 2g AWD DSM, beef that up and make it quick like I'd like, and then, hopefully, 2004 WRX STI


To Pboglio, got anymore info? I'm super curious about this car, being a curious person in general doesn't help, but now that I see something I want, wooooh better watchout .

This the best advice i have ever seen a young Airman give. I have been in the AF for over 8 years and i have had troops that bought a really nice car and could not afford to put gas in it after the note payment and insurance ever month.

Save your money and get the one you can pay off. After you been in a bit and make some more money upgrade.

Yeah your completely right, wow I know for a fact I'd do a 2.5 year loan if I could get it so I could get the thing paid off ASAP, but that and insurance, I'd probably be looking at over 600 a month easy.

 

[eazy2g]

Stay away from ST(why????)

I know someone who blew 3 blocks and 2 trannies. He just kept rebuild the damn car. Something about the metals being too soft and not being able to take a beating.

I do know you can beat the shit out of a 4g63 and it will hold up not like subies...

 

[spyder420]

I would go with the gsx mitsubishi's have more style get a built enigine n tranny it will cost you less than the scrubaru. if you need a mechanic let me know ive got a good one in milwaukee

 

[pboglio]

Hmm, well if finances are a limiting factor, go for the GSX. For a 20g, I see no point in building the motor unless you like pitching $2000-$4000 into unnecessary mods. It sounds stupid to say, but its frankly just cheaper to let the motor fail when it will fail instead of pre-emptively building it to hold that kind of power. The 2g 7-bolts have been known to hold easily over 400 w.h.p. and unless I had money burning in my pocket, would go elsewhere.

That point I imagine will come far in the future and until then roll it into supporting mods. And when I say this, its from experience, the same holds doubly true for the stock transmission, the built trannies are NOT worth the money at these higher torque levels. They go no matter what you do to them, built or not.

What the 97 GSX needs badly is a beefing up of the suspension/tire/wheel/brake package. Spend the money there to make it a more well balanced ride and you'll get alot closer to that EVO or STi handling and fun factor. I'm doing the same and used my STi as a benchmark for my 97 GSX and I am now starting to enjoy the GSX alot more these days because of it. It's getting to the point where its not driving like an old Cadillac anymore, which is a good thing.

 

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

Well thats what I was kind of thinking, like STI's are alot more stylish to me, they signify money and taste. GSX's don't necessarily convey the same image, although they can, if done right, and I know for a fact mine would be done right. If you got to know me you would know that I don't go cheap on things, either its the best I can get it, or I don't do it at all. Thats how I'd be if I got a GSX, there would be no half assing, type things of that nature. It'd also be the same for a Subie, I just feel like people would respect a Subie alot, but a 4G63 is a very powerful motor, there is no disputing that, if done right it can put up significant numbers.

Its hard to choose, it'd be so nice to have both but at this moment in time its not possible. I figure it'll cost me like 10 grand to do a GSX to the point where I'm done and I can't do anything else, I mean thats a huge chunk of money, who knows what I'd be putting into a Subie. Hmm.

 

[1gcrazy]

Ringlands... better have a good tuner.

Old... anything old takes money to feel new again.

 

[Nessuno]

I'm sorry, as much as I love STI's, I personally think they are the BIGGEST cliche. Every stupid 17 year old who's parents buy them a new car immediately wants one. It's as if they don't know of any other car out there.

Personally, I would go with a GSX. The scooby will make a much better daily if unmodded, however I doubt that's what you're buying it for. There is no better feeling than spending $4k on an older car, dumping a couple thousand in mods into it and roasting 80% of what's on the streets. It also helps knowing you don't have a car payment, but still manage to spank your buddy's brand new mustang. Not to mention insurance costs alone.

 

[MIenKEi446]

Would you rather spend like $7,000 or $20,000?

 

[pboglio]

You get what you pay for though. You have to decide how much performance you can afford. Buying my STi upfront and averaging my payments I'm so far way ahead of what I spent on my DSM. Think I paid $28,000 with taxes for my 97 GSX, and $32,000 for the STi. This is why I buy cars that are already hotrodded from the factory, in the long run it is cheaper. Used cars a different ball game, then again they are used.