1G Engine build - 300+ AWHP

[Ish416]

I have a 93 Talon TSi I purchased about a year ago. While driving the car home, the engine ran lean and let go after about 80 miles of leaving the sellers house. The engine ran so lean that the manifold cracked, the turbo doesn't spin freely, the rods are bent, pistons melted .. it's basically a total loss on the engine. As to how this happend, don't let friends drive "fast" vehicles home. I was later told that the wideband was reading between 15.7 - 17 AFR for about 20 minutes prior to it letting go.

The block is not in good shape and I have been searching for an engine to drop in. I simply cannot find a 1g 6 or 7bolt locally that is in decent shape. After talking to several local shops that deal with DSM's none will build the engine I want. They all want to go overkill with builds that will support over 600Whp and they are backed up with much higher dollar builds than mine.

The previous build was: Evo 3 16G @ 17PSI, Evo 8 pistons/rods, Evo 8 injectors (560cc), 2G MAF, 255 fuel pump and 2 1/2" exhaust.

My goals: reliable 300 - 350awhp build capable of trapping 110+, good street manners, 18 - 22mpg on the highway and a final cost of around $3,000 - $3,500 and driving by November. My LS1 might have ruined me on the MPG part - 11.4 @ 128 and 26mpg so not sure if 22mpg is reasonable or not.

New build: 1G 7bolt, standard bore, 2g pistons/dsm graveyard frankenstein rods (would like something around 9:1), reconditioned crank, Evo 3 16G @ 20PSI, larger injectors (unsure of what size) and OEM cams.

Are the DSM Graveyard crate engines decent for the money or is there a better place to go for my needs? I would build it myself but just don't have the time to get much accomplished outside of work for the next few months other than swapping in the new engine.

I already have DSMLink and will likely be taking it to Fathouse Fabrication for tuning.

Also was going to replace the suspension with KYB AGX units assuming they are decent?

Any suggestions, comments or criticism related to this build are appreciated.

Thanks

 

[jrs187]

Don't buy any parts from the graveyard if you want it to be running by November. It took my friend almost 2 months to get the wrong pistons in the mail from them.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Check the vendor reviews.

 

[Ish416]

Check the vendor reviews.

I have. Thanks though.

 

[tron2119]

Tthen I hope you're not going to buy from that GOD Awful place. Use your brain and don't get screwed by those idiots. I had a built engine from them last a whole 2600 mile. Tore it apart and sand all in the bearing and crank. Good luck if you do but I don't like throwing money away. You may be different.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Try any of the reputable vendors.

Stay away from Jon Walker/The DSM Graveyard/Graveyard Motorsports

 

[BOOSTIN21]

Well... 2g pistons would net you an 8.5:1 cr. Since your staying 7 bolt I would just use a set of EVO 8 rods/pistons and an EVO 8 crank. At the very least throw a set of 1g cams in, 1g intake mani with a bored and rebuilt TB. That motor will last and will hold up to gobs of power. HTA68's can be had for a very solid price these days so keep an eye out for that.

The 300whp goal is easily attainable and doesnt need to be over thought. Best of luck man!

BTW, if you were local I would help you on the motor. Would take all of a day after machine work and all the parts being there.

 

[CrashGNX]

As far as your engine goes, you might come out cheaper buying a JDM engine and having it shipped to you. I did several years ago and havent had a problem out of it. your only looking for 300-350HP like I have and the stock 6 bolt bottom end will hold up to that pretty easily if well maintained. Ive had mine up in the 32PSI boost range briefly and normally run it 20-22PSI with a Big16g.

For injectors, since you have DSMlink, get the biggest matched injectors you can reasonably afford, Im running 550's without a problem at 40PSI base fuel pressure. Actually, your 560's are fine if they arent hurt.

Your running a 255lph pump, get a aftermarket Fuel Pressure regulator, it will save alot of headache tuning it since it will overrun your stock regulator.

For struts, KYB AGXs are good for a daily driver and a decent replacement for OEMs on a budget. I got mine for about $400 shipped off ebay some 5 years back. If you plan on lowering it or racing it you might want to go a different direction there.

You'll need at least a 2.5inch downpipe and exhaust.

Fuel mileage will greatly vary on how heavy your foot is, I get anywhere from 6MPG or less hammering on it at the track or tuning to around 22-26 on the highway. It will also vary with how well it is tuned.

I wouldnt go with DSMGraveyard engines, I've heard some horror stories about them.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

My goals: reliable 300 - 350awhp build capable of trapping 110+, good street manners, 18 - 22mpg on the highway and a final cost of around $3,000 - $3,500 and driving by November. My LS1 might have ruined me on the MPG part - 11.4 @ 128 and 26mpg so not sure if 22mpg is reasonable or not.

I think you are underestimating your cost for your build. I'd stop thinking about a crate engine if you wanted to get anywhere near that number. To do this for less than 4k you are going to have to assemble the engine yourself. And do everything else, for that matter. Good luck, it can be done, just be frugal, the cost will jump up quickly. I created a spreadsheet for everything i needed, its funny how things get added out of necessity as time goes on.

 

[spadepro22]

Well... 2g pistons would net you an 8.5:1 cr. Since your staying 7 bolt I would just use a set of EVO 8 rods/pistons and an EVO 8 crank. At the very least throw a set of 1g cams in, 1g intake mani with a bored and rebuilt TB. That motor will last and will hold up to gobs of power. HTA68's can be had for a very solid price these days so keep an eye out for that.

The 300whp goal is easily attainable and doesnt need to be over thought. Best of luck man!

BTW, if you were local I would help you on the motor. Would take all of a day after machine work and all the parts being there.

It's a 93, so it has 1g intake, cams and so forth as far as the head.

 

[Jason G]

You don't need anything more than a stock motor for the power levels you want.
Any local DSM guys? Look on Craigslist?

 

[canada4g63]

Everything you already have will get you 300hp, stary cheap stock rods, 2g pistons, evrything else on your list is fine.

 

[3052Talon]

If my pile doesn't have its ecu issues worked out, you should buy my motor. Check my profile for specs.

 

[BOOSTIN21]

It's a 93, so it has 1g intake, cams and so forth as far as the head.

thank you, im simply stating that the setup is basic and not to over think it. no need to go get 264's right now, he doesnt need to get an SMIM right now.
that was my point...

 

[Marceldsm]

you dont need all that parts for 300 awd hp just buy a stock 6 bolt and work on the head, ported evo3 16g
fuel mods 20 psi and your there

p.s my Talon at idle is around that 15-17 to 1 and it dosent overhead or blows up, i dont get it

 

[spadepro22]

thank you, im simply stating that the setup is basic and not to over think it. no need to go get 264's right now, he doesnt need to get an SMIM right now.
that was my point...

Got you. Since you stated that since he was staying 7 bolt and to throw in the 1g intake and cams, I thought maybe you where thinking he had a 2g 7 bolt.

 

[Marceldsm]

stock internals can take a loot if the car is tuned properly


just work on the head 264 or 273 cams evo spring and retainers ( or something stronger)
no balance shafts
big intercooler
full 3 inch exhaust
2g maf
660 injectors ( maybe bigger)
maybe a magnus intake mani if you like top end
ported evo3 16g turbo
walbro 255
fuel pump rewierd mod
afpr

turn up the boost to 20 psi

you will be around 300 whp

 

[Ish416]

Thanks for the replies.

I know a stock engine would be capable of handling what I am looking for reliably. However, I cannot find a takeout engine that runs and would end up rebuilding it anyways. If it turns out that I can reuse my block, I will be re-sleeving it as the cylinders are quite tore up and I don't think that even a .040 bore would fix the issue. Maybe .060 .. maybe. At that point though, I think just re-sleeving would be the best option.

So let us assume that I will be starting with a re-sleeved stock bore 1G 7 bolt.

I will need a new/re-manufactured crank, new pistons and rods, gaskets and bearings. I am familiar with Wiseco and JE pistons and have had great luck with both. The only rods I have ever ran were OEM. As far as gaskets, I have always ran Cometic or OEM in everything I have had to rebuild and have never had any issues. Also, I have only ran ARP or OEM studs. As for bearings, I was thinking OEM or ACL.

I need to mention that I have never had a 4g63 completely apart. I have had a few LSx, small blocks, VW boxers and several dirt bike/ATV engines apart. Is there anything tricky or unique to these engines that I may need to look at?

Any suggestions on parts and/or vendors is much appreciated.

 

[Marceldsm]

Thanks for the replies.

I know a stock engine would be capable of handling what I am looking for reliably. However, I cannot find a takeout engine that runs and would end up rebuilding it anyways. If it turns out that I can reuse my block, I will be re-sleeving it as the cylinders are quite tore up and I don't think that even a .040 bore would fix the issue. Maybe .060 .. maybe. At that point though, I think just re-sleeving would be the best option.

So let us assume that I will be starting with a re-sleeved stock bore 1G 7 bolt.

I will need a new/re-manufactured crank, new pistons and rods, gaskets and bearings. I am familiar with Wiseco and JE pistons and have had great luck with both. The only rods I have ever ran were OEM. As far as gaskets, I have always ran Cometic or OEM in everything I have had to rebuild and have never had any issues. Also, I have only ran ARP or OEM studs. As for bearings, I was thinking OEM or ACL.

I need to mention that I have never had a 4g63 completely apart. I have had a few LSx, small blocks, VW boxers and several dirt bike/ATV engines apart. Is there anything tricky or unique to these engines that I may need to look at?

Any suggestions on parts and/or vendors is much appreciated.

just get a new engine in that case you dont need wiseco pistons

the stock pistons will take like 450 hp whit a proper tune, you need MAYBE stronger rods,

save your money and just buy a good 6 bolt engine

 

[93TSiguy]

I just PMed you a couple engine rebuild parts I have between my old 93TSi and my Evo VIII (which I just did a full motor build on). Some of the parts you and others mentioned I have... hit me up.

Also... I would definitely go ACL bearings over OEM. I mean why not... they arn't terribly expensive and give you great security. But if your all OEM underneath... sticking oem bearings, if BNIB, can't hurt.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

Thanks for the replies.
I will need a new/re-manufactured crank, new pistons and rods, gaskets and bearings. I am familiar with Wiseco and JE pistons and have had great luck with both. The only rods I have ever ran were OEM. As far as gaskets, I have always ran Cometic or OEM in everything I have had to rebuild and have never had any issues. Also, I have only ran ARP or OEM studs. As for bearings, I was thinking OEM or ACL.

I need to mention that I have never had a 4g63 completely apart. I have had a few LSx, small blocks, VW boxers and several dirt bike/ATV engines apart. Is there anything tricky or unique to these engines that I may need to look at?

Any suggestions on parts and/or vendors is much appreciated.

New and OEM crank don't go together. OEM cranks are now more expensive than a forged eagle crank, I think last time I saw one it was 800$. You can get a descent one turned and polished for 200$ out the door if you can get a good price on the classifieds or local. I'd try local first. Hover craigslist. Junkyards. If you want to squeeze the most out of your 3-3.5k, its the way to go. Echo above post, ACL. I'd also like to volunteer this:
4G63 DOHC Mitsubishi Full Gasket Set 5/92 -94
Buying OEM gets crazy expensive after awhile, I tabulated a list for all the gaskets and whatnot, and my total was over 400$. This seems to be a good gasket kit, its well reviewed on this site. Like I said, I havent used it so I cant give personal expirience, but for under 100$, youll get basically every gasket and seal you will need, top to bottom. I ordered one, everything appears to be of good quality, and Bruce claims it is of OEM quality made by the same company that made OEM parts for our cars. Just throwing that out there since you are on a budget. I simply just didn't want to spend a small fortune on pieces of rubber and felt, im a little up in the air about the headgasket that comes with it, but I think im going to give it a go. If everything works out, it will feel like the steal of a century. As far as your internals go, ebay isnt a terrible option. Good reading here:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/447242-ebay-pistons.html
And for your top end, more quality ebay pieces:
engnbldr | eBay
One of the resident machine wisemen here, Bogus, swears by engnbldr on ebay. He uses his rebuild parts on basically every head build he does, the parts have been proven over a good span of time to be of very high quality and at a good price. Hope ive saved you some $$$'s, I know thats what I like to do. Why spend more when you can spend less, without sacrificing on quality?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I have an unknown condition 6-bolt that came out of a friends car.

Old school SAFC unknown brand aftermarket cams (272/272) and it trapped 115+ a few times on pump gas with a Greddy 18G in 2008 when it was last running. This was in a full weight 2G with subs, amp, etc.

Probably could just slap some new main/rod bearings, rings and head studs in it and run that sucker at 350awhp for years.

Just sitting in my garage, PM me if interested.

 

[Kickerbeast]

*Previous Owner here*

I'm sorry that the car had an issue. About a year prior, I had the o2 short out and it did some really weird stuff. Luckily I had the wideband in there so I could see that it was going really lean from time to time. Did you get any pictures of the engine damage? Just curious to see it. If you are still looking for any parts, let me know and I will see if anyone up here has what you need.

 

[Ish416]

*Previous Owner here*

I'm sorry that the car had an issue. About a year prior, I had the o2 short out and it did some really weird stuff. Luckily I had the wideband in there so I could see that it was going really lean from time to time. Did you get any pictures of the engine damage? Just curious to see it. If you are still looking for any parts, let me know and I will see if anyone up here has what you need.

No worries, it sucks but shit happens. No fault of yours at all.

I don't have any pictures I can find of the engine. My SD card that had the pictures died. Everything was basically trashed, it was bad.

I ended up building a fresh 6 bolt. It has Eagle rods and Mahle 9:1 pistons.

I still do not have the car going as life has been uncooperative lately and my free time has been focused on other things. That said, I plan on finishing it up next month.

 

[Kickerbeast]

That should work nicely. I'm getting ready to start building a 6 bolt here soon. Not a DSM but it will be 4G63 powered and AWD so it will be a fun toy.