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2G 1G CAS in 2G, Injector order

Mikhail

Probationary Member
12
0
Mar 9, 2016
Newburgh, New_York
Alright so here it goes. I got a guy who had a 1g swap done on his 2g and now he's swapped back to a 2g using a 1G CAS. Now the car runs with the 95eprom ECU(DSMLink v2) and stock wiring color codes to the injectors and the CAS inversion enabled. Runs like trash, but it does run.

When the 1g swap was done, rather than swap the pins at the ECU like you're supposed to, the guy cut the wires and made extensions on all of them then swapped em' at the injectors. What I need to know is, what is the correct order the wires should be for a 2g using a 1g CAS.

I tried using the magnus writeup to essentially convert the data they provide you with in regards to swapping wires at the ECU, into data I can use to swap plugs at the injectors. I'll post a write up of what I think they should be and why.

Either color codes or number swaps would be greatly appreciated for anyone who happens to have done a number of swaps and just remembers off the top of their head.

Alright here we go. So this is how I'm looking at it. I know I could start at TDC and find each compression stroke and so on. Or just use the firing order but its easier to just ask someone who has the knowledge than go through all of that.

Here's how I see it

4 | 3 | 2 | 1
Injector order from left to right as timing belt on far right closest to cylinder 1

Wire colors @ injectors

4) green/green-red
3) green-red/green-yellow
2) green-black/yellow-black
1) green/red-blue

Color codes of wires at ECU, untouched.

4) green-red (pin 15)
3) green-yellow (pin 2)
2) yellow-black (pin 14)
1) green - (pin 1)

Pin swaps as per magnus

4) pin 15 ]]to pin 2[[
3) pin 2 ]]to pin 1[[
2) pin 14 ]]to pin 15[[
1) pin 1 ]]to pin 14[[

Now what does this all mean for me?

Swap:

Injector 4 with Injector 2
Injector 3 with Injector 1
Injector 2 with injector 4
Injector 1 with Injector 2

Writing it all out at first seemed like a good idea to keep track of everything but its annoying to read over and over again. It all just ends up blurring together and making no sense after a while.

Even if someone could just tell me if I'm on the right track, I'd appreciate it.

Final thoughts --- EDIT ---

Plug Wires are swapped as per the diagram provided but after reading more into the magnus writeup for 1g in a 2g I'm not even sure anymore LOL...

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Now we can read it like this. Stock.

Coils from Left to right

A | B | C | D

A - 4
B - 1

C - 2
D - 3

Magnus says take that factory plug wiring and revise it as such:

A - C
B - D

C - A
D - B

This plug swapping implies ( Magnus )

A - 2
B - 3

C - 4
D - 1

The Diagram above, which I believe comes from ECM states the plug swaps should be as follows:

A - 3
B - 2

C - 1
D - 4

I swear I remembered reading somewhere that the particular order was irrelevant so long the plug wires are sharing the same coil where applicable. Is this true? Sorry for all the dumbass questions. Just trying to save myself a few mins going through the process of figuring it all out on my own.

Thanks again everyone.
 

Boomdeeze

Proven Member
2,098
334
Jul 5, 2009
Independence, Minnesota
So in all are you asking which plug wires to swap where? Sorry I kind of got lost while reading through all of that haha If you are looking for the order it is easy to look at it this way; the coil pack has the cylinder number on the bracket portion. When you convert to the 1G CAS you need to swap the 1-4 and the 3-2. This will swap the coil that each plug goes to. So to wrap it up, your basically swapping the wires from coil A to coil B and vise versa.
 

PlanZero

Proven Member
1,522
259
Aug 13, 2013
Easton, Pennsylvania
I thought the whole point of inverting the signal was so you don't have to swap pins and wires.
I installed a 1g CAS on my 2ga, which has the CAS on the drivers side. Since I don't have link and didn't feel like swapping pins (it was 20 degrees out) I just put in a spare 97 ecu I had and it runs fine since 2gbs have the cas on the passenger side.
I was under the impression that the only time you needed to change ecu pins or swap wires was if you were running a 95-96 ecu with a 1g CAS without link, and had no way to invert the signal.
 

Mikhail

Probationary Member
12
0
Mar 9, 2016
Newburgh, New_York
I ended up figuring it out finally. I think... I made it way more complicated than I should have but I think its like this... So the order of the injectors as they sit on the motor is irrelevant, obviously. The order of the injector cylinder as it sits and in what order it sits is far more important. And for that matter I never really understood the context of the word "inversion" until I came to understand the difference of pin placement between the 1g and 2g ecu.(next to or across from) The firing order is what matters. So basically, if you take into consideration the pin placement on the ECU for both the 1g and the 2g, compare that to the firing order 1-3-4-2.

1g ECU injector pin placement.

Injector 1 - 51
Injector 2 - 52
Injector 3 - 60
Injector 4 - 61

2g ECU injector pin placement.

Injector 1 - 1
Injector 2 - 14
Injector 3 - 2
Injector 4 - 15

Now what does this mean? We need to adapt the 2g ECU to follow the same "theme" or "pattern" as the 1g ECU remembering firing order is what's most important.

1G pins in order via firing sequence

51 - 1
60 - 3
61 - 4
52 - 2

2G pins in order via firing sequence

1 - 1
2 - 3
15 - 4
14 -2

Now remember, we're talking about injector plugs and ECU pins. Not injectors, or cylinders, at this point. I put the injector numbers as reference points but literally nothing else. So think of it like this... We want the pins on the 2g ECU to essentially match the 1g ECU. Without going crazy, I honestly don't remember what clicked in my head but it all suddenly made sense. Move pin 14 to the top of the sequence and you're left with the following:

2G 1G
14 ---- 51
1 ----- 60
2 ----- 61
15 ---- 52

Notice how the pattern between the two is a lot closer to one another now, compared to the unaltered 2g sequence. But the last thing that's off, is.. the CAS inversion which will take that and turn it from...

14
1
2
15

into a nice healthy and proper

1
14
15
2

But what does this all mean? If you happen to be swapping injector wires at the injectors themselves, rather than at the ECU, because someone who did a 6 bolt swap for your friend a while back decided to cut the injector wires and literally just twist in extensions without but connectors or soldering of any kind... Well then this should help you to understand.

I imagine there's gotta be an article explaining WHY the injectors need to be swapped and not just how. Or maybe I just have to know why. Who knows. Regardless, here is the switch up of plugs in order based on firing order. Put all of the injector plugs in their default locations. Color codes for the wires are as follows... again:

4) green/green-red
3) green-red/green-yellow
2) green-black/yellow-black
1) green/red-blue

Read the "->"(arrow) as "goes to" || For example.. " 1 -> 3" The default stock injector on cylinder 1(closest to timing belt) should have a plug connected green/red-blue. Disconnect it and plug it into cylinder three after unplugging cylinder three, unplug cylinder 4 and plug in the connector from cylinder three and so on.

1 -> 3
3 -> 4
4 -> 2
2 -> 1

This is literally the only way this makes any kind of sense to me.

For the record, DSMLink/ECMLink v2 has the CAS inversion option.
 

dexterholland04

Proven Member
755
105
Jan 1, 2007
Rush, New_York
Alright so here it goes. I got a guy who had a 1g swap done on his 2g and now he's swapped back to a 2g using a 1G CAS. Now the car runs with the 95eprom ECU(DSMLink v2) and stock wiring color codes to the injectors and the CAS inversion enabled. Runs like trash, but it does run.

When the 1g swap was done, rather than swap the pins at the ECU like you're supposed to, the guy cut the wires and made extensions on all of them then swapped em' at the injectors. What I need to know is, what is the correct order the wires should be for a 2g using a 1g CAS.

I tried using the magnus writeup to essentially convert the data they provide you with in regards to swapping wires at the ECU, into data I can use to swap plugs at the injectors. I'll post a write up of what I think they should be and why.

Either color codes or number swaps would be greatly appreciated for anyone who happens to have done a number of swaps and just remembers off the top of their head.

Swap what pins at the ECU? I'm not aware of needing to swap anything at the ECU when putting a 6-bolt in a 2g. The only thing you would need to do would be to choose the CAS inversion (like you have done), and change the firing order from 4123 (stock 2g firing order) to 2341. Take the wires at the coil: swap 4 with 2, and 1 with 3. There is no need to mess with the injectors at all. The ONLY time someone would have to change pins is if a different ECU was being used, such as running an Evo 8 ECU. Get a picture of the 2g DSM ECU pinout and re-pin everything to 2g. Then check the box and swap the firing order. Also, you're going to need to ground the timing diagnostic pin, and then use a timing light to set the base timing. This could also contribute to a car running like poop. Otherwise, trying to mess with the injector wiring at the ECU is a PITA, and not necessary at all.

EZ PZ.

I imagine there's gotta be an article explaining WHY the injectors need to be swapped and not just how. Or maybe I just have to know why. Who knows. Regardless, here is the switch up of plugs in order based on firing order. Put all of the injector plugs in their default locations.


We swap the IGNITION wires because of this exact reason. Sure, the CAS controls the firing of the injectors, but why would you want to mess with that? It's much easier, and less invasive to just swap the plug wires around and check the box.
 

PlanZero

Proven Member
1,522
259
Aug 13, 2013
Easton, Pennsylvania
I'm utterly confused. Someone please clarify this. Since you have the inversion option you shouldn't have to do any swapping. The only time you wouldn't invert the signal is if you were running link with a 2ga CAS. Swapping wires with link is like a double negative, and is only supposed to be done if you have no way to reprogram the ecu. As the magnus/rre diagram shows, it's only if you're running a 1g or 2gb CAS on a 2ga ECU without link. Put everything back to stock and it should run fine, assuming the 1g CAS is calibrated properly and the adaptor harness is good. Right?
 

dexterholland04

Proven Member
755
105
Jan 1, 2007
Rush, New_York
I'm utterly confused. Someone please clarify this. Since you have the inversion option you shouldn't have to do any swapping. The only time you wouldn't invert the signal is if you were running link with a 2ga CAS. Swapping wires with link is like a double negative, and is only supposed to be done if you have no way to reprogram the ecu. As the magnus/rre diagram shows, it's only if you're running a 1g or 2gb CAS on a 2ga ECU without link. Put everything back to stock and it should run fine, assuming the 1g CAS is calibrated properly and the adaptor harness is good. Right?

As per ECMTuning:

When installing a '95 EPROM ECU (or '96) on car with a non-'95/'96 style cam angle sensor, you have to rearrange the plug wires. You will also want to check the “Use non-95/96 style cam angle sensor” checkbox in the Misc tab of the ECU Config tab (called “Invert CAS” option in the ECU→Miscellaneous dialog in the older V2 application).

You'll need to invert the CAS signal and swap the wires.
 

PlanZero

Proven Member
1,522
259
Aug 13, 2013
Easton, Pennsylvania
OK, I'm not disagreeing with ecm tuning, but that seems ridiculous though doesn't it? As i mentioned earlier when i installed my 1g CAS on my 2ga head i would have had to swap pins, but instead i just put a 2gb ecu in, with no problem. BTW the only reason I'm asking for clarification is if I upgraded to link.
Edit: never mind, I'm going with tactrix.
 

dexterholland04

Proven Member
755
105
Jan 1, 2007
Rush, New_York
OK, I'm not disagreeing with ecm tuning, but that seems ridiculous though doesn't it? As i mentioned earlier when i installed my 1g CAS on my 2ga head i would have had to swap pins, but instead i just put a 2gb ecu in, with no problem. BTW the only reason I'm asking for clarification is if I upgraded to link.
Edit: never mind, I'm going with tactrix.

With the 1g CAS on a 95-96 ECU the injection timing is different (since it's using a 1g CAS and not determining it from the cam and crank angle sensors...which the 1g and late 2gs do not have the latter). So, this would require something that recodes the ignition timing to match the injection timing. I would venture a pretty good guess (without access to the DSMLink source code) that using the "non-'95/'96 style cam angle sensor" option forgoes the stock 95 ignition event ordering code, and uses something that mirrors the 1g firing order...hence requiring both the checkbox and wires to be swapped.
 

PlanZero

Proven Member
1,522
259
Aug 13, 2013
Easton, Pennsylvania
Ok I guess that makes sense. I was under the assumption that the DSM link chipped 95 ecu had the magical ability to just invert the signal and that would take care of the firing order. Thanks for the clarification Dex. And sorry if I hijacked your thread, Mikhail.
 

chanley talon

Proven Member
774
14
Nov 10, 2005
Spencer, Indiana
Another Dead End. Looking for what injector pins need swapped if I was to install a 95 eprom ecu in a 99? I understand firing order. But what about the injectors. I do not have the ecm link.
 
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