16G still not spooling right!

[94EclipseGST]

Yeah, it still taking so long to spool (4500 RPM), and if I go WOT from low RPM, the car just lags its ass off and I have to downshift.

Any of you Big 16G guys having similar problems?

I upgraded the exhaust manifold and even went with a GM MAF/MAFT in blowthrough setup to help the turbo spool. Still no dice. My 14b kicked more ass than this big 16G.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

dude, I just realized I hijacked the crap out of this thread.. my bad

anyway, I went and stuck 1 more washer on there and replaced the bolts with 8mm x 1.25 x 20mm bolts [ for anyone who wants to do this ]. here's the picture. sadly, it still spools like crap, although it hits 2-300 rpms faster

 

[94EclipseGST]

Well, I did not shim the wastegate yet, but I have done some fiddling with the timing and fuel trims and have noticed a pretty substantial difference.

My low fuel trim was maxed lean, and timing was all fouled up. Once adjusting the fuel trim to a more rich condition, and adjusting the timing closer to 8 degrees, I immediately noticed the difference.

I think maybe with some shimming, more fuel and timing tuning, I'll be okay.

 

[TheTSiGuy]

Good to know man!

Its amazing what bad/incorrect tuning will do.

Obviously being so lean, you pulled the timing way off. Do you have a logger to see what your detonation/knock count was?

I think a 16g even on a bad tune would still fully spool by 3500. With your modifications and correct tuning, you can probably get it down to 3200.

 

[94EclipseGST]

I do have a logger using MMCd. Strangely enough, I was never getting more than 7 counts of knock, and only in the higher RPM ranges.

It begins to spool around 3500, but does not reach full spool up until almost 4600 RPMs. Then she takes off like a bat out of hell.

Maybe that's how it's supposed to be, but I just go so used to my 14b throwing me back in my seat the second I stomped the pedal.

 

[girlieracr4g63]

Man Im glad you figured it out. Its funny how nobody agreed with me that it could be timing related.

 

[94EclipseGST]

Yes, timing can screw up a number of things. Last time I had idle problems and idle surge, I thought for sure it was the ISC, but it tested well. I adjusted the timing as it was off a little, and the idle problem cleared up as soon as I started moving the CAS.

 

[flinguist]

my EVOIII 16g spools fast...just like the 14b did round 2300. its also ported along with my 2g manny tho i dono somethings def wrong there

That's faster than a T25. I don't think so.

 

[TheTSiGuy]

That's faster than a T25. I don't think so.

I'll agree. a t25 with exhaust will spool at 2800.

an EvoIII with an exhaust might do 3000 rpm spoolup though...

Although you still shouldnt be spooling up that late. Thats how long it takes a 50 trim to spoolup, man.

You're absolutely sure you have no leaks? you've pressurized the system? the turbo is 100% working order?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

btw, when you guys talk about spoolup times.. it this full boost or when it begins to spool? [ say .. 16 psi is your boost setting ]

 

[ShapeGSX]

"Spoolup" depends on the gear you are in. Best test is to floor the throttle at 2000RPMs in 3rd gear.

 

[midnght]

btw, when you guys talk about spoolup times.. it this full boost or when it begins to spool? [ say .. 16 psi is your boost setting ]

Those numbers for the T25 and others is at FULL BOOST.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Those numbers for the T25 and others is at FULL BOOST.

Completely meaningless without mentioning the gear you are in. 15psi will be reached earlier in the RPM band in higher gears.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

well I always seem to do my tests in 2nd and 3rd gear pulls.

my problem is my boost gauge will read 16 psi at about 3.7k and then you can actually FEEL the power at around 4.2k... I've done everything to fix this and it's still a no go

 

[92awddsm]

Mine did that last week after the cam install. After tuning, it was taken care of. I found that I was suffering from a lean condition but my fuel trims and o2 voltage didnt show it and I only got 2-3 counts of knock at the time. Try to richen it a couple of % at 3k and 4k and see if it helps any. Good luck and let us know the outcome.

 

[midnght]

I hope nobody on here is judging thier spool range with a 1st or 5th gear romp.


On average those rpms/psi numbers are from either 3rd-4th. They are all pretty close. With 4th gear being the closest one can get to a 1:1 ratio that you would want to read on a dyno chart.

I know most people do there pulls on a 3rd gear run. They are so close it is almost negligable to specify which one.

There is no arguement here. Just saying that full boost at 2800 rpm is not going to happen in 1st or 2nd. More like 3rd or 4th.

 

[Smoothie97]

I got a B16G and I don't hit full boost (16 psi) until 3800 rpm in 1st. But if I'm in 2nd, I get 16 psi at about 3500 rpms.

 

[94EclipseGST]

Okay, after adjusting fuel trims, I found that my blow-off valve was open a little bit. I put more washers in there to tighten it and BINGO. Now she spools a little slower than the 14b, but kicks ass up top and holds boost to redline. That, I think is where the real difference lies between the two turbos.

Anyway, thanks for the help in getting this figured out.

 

[flinguist]

Excellent!

 

[TheTSiGuy]

Excellent!

Agreed!! Glad to know your car is running right now.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

hate to bring this up again but I was just thinking..

if you shim the wastegate, it DOES increase tension on the WGA. but the WGA only moves a certain distance. and by adding washers [ adding distance for tension ] doesn't that make the WGA extent oh so long, and only opens up the flapper 3/4 [hypothetical ] of the way?