car not running right still

[93whitelaserrs]

my car has been running rich forever now, I have taken it to the dealer and shops and they both told my the t-belt was right. The dealer told me the injector or injectors was bad and the o2 sensor, but I replaced the injectors and o2 and it still runs richs. My question was is there something that controls the injectors other than the computer. Or any other thing that could be wrong. thanks

 

[femmeDSM]

There are a lot of things that could be wrong. We'll need some more info from you to guide you in the right direction, though.

I assume you aren't throwing any codes - do you have a datalogger? If not, it would be a good idea to invest in one (you can make the cable yourself, or purchase one on ebay for well under 50 bucks if you don't have the time to do it yourself, along with a cheap Palm pilot, also found super cheap on ebay).

First of all, we'll start with the basic questions: How do you "know" that your car is running rich? What are the symptoms exactly? Replacing the O2 sensor is a good start, but blindly throwing parts at a car is generally not a good idea, as it will only waste money and make you more frustrated.

So what exactly is going on? Is the car hard to start? Is it running so rich that it's flooding out and dying? Are you fouling plugs? Have you checked the ECT (Coolant Temp Sensor)? Have you (or the dealership) checked the stock FPR and related components? Black smoke coming from the exhaust? All the time, or only under certain conditions? Have you done a boost leak test? Checked all vacuum hoses? Are you venting the BOV nono? These are all things that would help us help you. Be as specific as you can, and I'm sure there will be plenty of us willing to help you figure out your problem

 

[93whitelaserrs]

Well I'll first answer your first question about the datalogger, I don't have one but I was wondering what exactely does one do? As of how I know my car is running rich, is at an idle if I give it gas, for around 10 seconds it will not rev up untill it unfloods itself. If you drive the car at a constant speed long enough and come to an idle the car will run fine untill it starts flooding itself out again. Also when driving the car it poors the black smoke out the tailpipe. The ect I just replaced not to long ago, because the wires going to the sensor broke from age I guess. Not for sure if fpr means fuel pressure regulator or not, but I pulled one off my parts car and put it on there. I have also run a boost leak and a leak down test and both were fine, I also did a compression test which came back fine also. The plugs have been fouling, cleaned them a hundred times and replaced them a couple times even. I was venting into the astompshere, but read that would cause one to run rich so I hooked it back up.

 

[femmeDSM]

Thanks for the extra info - definitely helpful to get us started figuring out your problem

It looks like you've been doing your research and getting yourself off to a good start (especially with the BOV - you definitely do not want to vent to atmosphere without proper supporting mods, as this will kill your performance and sometimes your whole car )

Are you running larger injectors, or have you upgraded ANY part of the fuel system at all? I did notice that your vehicle profile said your car is completely stock, but I just had to ask anyway (sometimes people forget to update I've seen problems very similar to this occur when people upgrade injectors without supporting modifications, for example.

Also, I want to verify that your coolant temp sensor has been rewired/hooked up correctly (not doubting your competence here at all, but I know I have accidentally gotten wires backwards before, so just to verify, here's a post that demostrates how the ect is supposed to be wired up: http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219408). A faulty ECT could also cause many of the symptoms you're describing, so let's just get this out of the way once & for all

Some other things that may be the problem, off the top of my head:

Exhaust Leak (inspect your exhaust manifold for visible cracks or marks that indicate carbon buildup. Running a Seafoam treatment through your intake will expose exhaust leaks like a champ - I would recommend a seafoam or MCCC treatment anyway). A lot of times, exhaust leaks will cause your O2 sensor to read lean when, in fact, the car is running pig rich. (A lot of people attribute this at first to a faulty O2 sensor, when that is not necessarily the case). This is due to the excess air that is sneaking in and "tricking" the O2 sensor, which tells the ECU to dump in more (and more, and more) fuel. The worse the leak, the more air will be making its way in. The more air is getting in, the more fuel the ECU will try and use to "compensate" for what it sees as a lean condition. And obviously, the more fuel, the crappier your car is going to be running.

Timing: Always a good idea to verify timing, if you haven't done this already. You can buy or borrow a timing light, and follow this VFAQ for instructions: http://www.plymouthlaser.com/timin.htm
Incorrect ignition timing can cause ALL SORTS of weird crap. Believe me. It's a long list

Re Datalogger: You will definitely need one of these. I would love to write a novel about how useful these are, but you'll probably have more luck by just searching the forums, where you'll find plenty of information on where to buy them, how to install them, and how to decipher the information they give you. Please keep in mind that a datalogger's purpose is to tell you what your ECU is seeing. You cannot use it to "tune" your car directly, but it will give you an excellent idea of what's going on internally (information that you can then use to your advantage when deciding what parts to buy next, what areas need help, or what parts may need replacing).

Here's a link to a 1g logger cable/Software on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Data...007QQitemZ170037863300QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

You will also need a palm pilot (I found mine on ebay for like $35.00). There are sites (or ebay auctions) that sell "kits" that include the cable and a Palm Pilot, though it is sometimes cheaper to piece the kits together yourself, as I did

Honestly, I would not hesitate to say that, for the money (under $100, all inclusive), a datalogger is *THE BEST* tool you can buy for your DSM. Hands down.

All that being said, once you get your datalogger set up, you can use it to log a short run, as well as pull any trouble codes that may be stored in your ECU. This will be a big help here.

I would also like to see you pull your ECU and check the capacitors for leakage/damage. Our cars are not getting any younger, and ECU failure is always a possibility with "weird problems", so it's good to rule that out, as well (FYI, the ECU is inside the big silver box underneath the radio. just remove that box and unscrew the cover to look at the ECU. You'll be looking for discoloration, liquid-like traces on the board, or, in bad situations, burned or black marks).

Wow, that was a long post....I have a tendency to ramble, especially in cases like these where the problem is a bit hard to pin-point. BUT, I hope a gave you a few places to get started Good luck

 

[93whitelaserrs]

Wow that is really alot of stuff man, about the injectors I bought a factory used set of 450cc. When my turbo went out and I put the 2g turbo on I used the manifold off the 2g also because mine was cracked. In a prevouis post I read you can get seafoam at advance so I'll get that and use that. I had already pulled the ecu out and checked it and my other one that I got off of my buddies junk car he had, neither one seemed to be leaking, but I decided to use my buddies. I will definetly buy me a datalogger, sorry for not being more specific in my last post, as of I had read about the datalogger after I replied to your last post, and for not being more specific as of what I had already done to figure out what was wrong with my car, but I do believe we have covered everything that I have done so far. Thanks for everything, I'll buy me a datalogger and see what it says and then I'll probably coming back to pick your brain again. thanks

 

[RockSolidGST]

You switched from a 1g ( 14b ) To a 2g ( t25 ) turbo Whyyyy

 

[93whitelaserrs]

Yeah guys thanks alot for all the info, I finally got my car running correct. I found out that my computer was going bad, but the odd thing is that both of my computers were bad, but thats just how my luck goes. Anyways thanks again for all the help