16g injector sizing help

[TeclipseFTW]

so... 1lb/min = 14.47178 cfm? that would mean that im working with around 35.38 pounds per minute of air flow with my 16g turbo... How much psi could I boost with the walboro 190 rewired and 550cc injectors?

Walboro 190lph

10psi = 46.48lbs/min
11psi = 45.89lbs/min
12psi = 45.26lbs/min
13psi = 44.58lbs/min
14psi = 43.86lbs/min
15psi = 43.09lbs/min
16psi = 42.28lbs/min
17psi = 41.43lbs/min
18psi = 40.54lbs/min
19psi = 39.60lbs/min
20psi = 38.62lbs/min
21psi = 37.60lbs/min
22psi = 36.53lbs/min
23psi = 35.42lbs/min
24psi = 34.26lbs/min
25psi = 33.06lbs/min

Walboro 190lph (Rewired)

10psi = 60.68lbs/min
11psi = 59.85lbs/min
12psi = 59.01lbs/min
13psi = 58.16lbs/min
14psi = 57.29lbs/min
15psi = 56.40lbs/min
16psi = 55.49lbs/min
17psi = 54.57lbs/min
18psi = 53.63lbs/min
19psi = 52.67lbs/min
20psi = 51.70lbs/min
21psi = 50.71lbs/min
22psi = 49.71lbs/min
23psi = 48.68lbs/min
24psi = 47.64lbs/min
25psi = 46.58lbs/min


550cc @ 100% IDC will support 39.48lbs/min
550cc @ 80% IDC will support 31.58lbs/min

580cc @ 100% IDC will support 41.63lbs/min
580cc @ 80% IDC will support 33.31lbs/min

650cc @ 100% IDC will support 46.66lbs/min
650cc @ 80% IDC will support 37.32lbs/min

660cc @ 100% IDC will support 47.37lbs/min
660cc @ 80% IDC will support 37.90lbs/min

720cc @ 100% IDC will support 51.68lbs/min
720cc @ 80% IDC will support 41.34lbs/min

750cc @ 100% IDC will support 53.83lbs/min
750cc @ 80% IDC will support 43.07lbs/min

780cc @ 100% IDC will support 55.99lbs/min
780cc @ 80% IDC will support 44.79lbs/min

850cc @ 100% IDC will support 61.01lbs/min
850cc @ 80% IDC will support 48.80lbs/min


I just not sure how to use this data in planning my purchase of injectors and fuel pump.

also, if i were to purchase a gm maf can that be tuned with a dsmlink?

 

[gofer]

How many lbs of boost do you plan on running?

 

[TeclipseFTW]

18. but im curious how high I can go with that setup

 

[toofast82]

What are you using to tune?
If you're using something with full fuel control like jackal, link,etc, then I would say go with some larger injectors like 1000cc. Plus you'll have room most likely if you wish to run e85 in the future on the 16g.
If you are using a piggyback like safc or maf-t, then max I would go is 650cc on pump. I've also heard of people running 900cc+ on e85 with safc and working well.
I'd recommend a wideband for any type of tuning also

For reference, I was running ~23-24psi on 93pump with the Evo8 pump rewired(~190lph) and injectors(560cc) with the a/t fpr. A/Fs were in the 10.7:1 range, so it was not running out of fuel in any way.

 

[TeclipseFTW]

I will be purchasing a dsmlink in the future before I buy the injectors/pump/rewire kit. but when I buy the link, will I use that to tune my gm maf? I live 20 minutes from AMS performance and I will have them tune my car correctly... so 24 psi with 190 walboro and 550cc injectors? i would love to know how to read the info in my original post

 

[gofer]

18. but im curious how high I can go with that setup

All those numbers you posted are just that, numbers. It doesn't matter how monster of a fuel pump you have either, your still limited by your injector size first.

Injectors
Lets say your 16g pushes about 38 lbs/min on 20psi, that means your going to want to find an injector that can keep up with that amount of air going into the motor. Typically most tuners shoot for 80% IDC's (injector duty cycle) when the turbos pushing its max airflow, that way you get some wiggle room. With that being said 660cc injectors would be your best bet.

650cc @ 100% IDC will support 46.66lbs/min
650cc @ 80% IDC will support 37.32lbs/min​

Fuel Pump
Your 16g is pushing 38 lbs/min on 20psi and you've got the injector to support the airflow, now you need a fuel pump that can get the fuel to the injectors. Looking at the numbers you posted/found from the Tech Articles you'll see a Walbro 190 would be enough for that setup without a rewire...

20psi = 38.62lbs/min​

But you'd be working that pump really hard and look how much more you can get out of it just by rewiring running the same boost and pushing the same amount of air...

20psi = 51.70lbs/min​

E85 in the future?
E85 is a different animal and if you ever plan on running it you'd be better off buying the fuel system that can support it now so when you decide to make the switch your not buying everything all over again! Picking the fuel pump is easy, you'll want the biggest Walbro you can buy, the 255 HP. If you stick to the 16g and want to run E85 then you'll have to do some math, the 38 lbs/min on 20psi remains the same since your turbo doesn't change. Injectors are flow tested on gasoline which has a gas ratio of 1.00 so to find the flow of a 660cc injector on gasoline you'd take 660 x 1.00 = 660, easy enough. E85 has a gas ratio of 0.67 though so the amount an injector can flow E85 is a lot different, it looks like this 660 x 0.67 = 442. What that means is on E85 a 660cc injector will flow like a 442cc injector which is WAY too small to support a turbo thats flowing 38 lbs/min.

450cc @ 100% IDC will support 32.30lbs/min
450cc @ 80% IDC will support 25.84lbs/min​

The smallest injector you'd want to run on E85 would be a 950cc injector since your 16g can flow 38 lbs/min, just do the math. 950 x 0.67 = 636.5.

650cc @ 100% IDC will support 46.66lbs/min
650cc @ 80% IDC will support 37.32lbs/min​

 

[TeclipseFTW]

so go big for the future? I have not even checked on price differences between injector sizes yet... for my goals If I got the 255 walboro I wouldnt even have to rewire yet.. cool thanks a lot for your insight! what about tuning the gm maf? can it be done with a dsmlink?

 

[gofer]

so go big for the future? I have not even checked on price differences between injector sizes yet... for my goals If I got the 255 walboro I wouldnt even have to rewire yet.. cool thanks a lot for your insight! what about tuning the gm maf? can it be done with a dsmlink?

Go big on your fuel mods if you plan on getting a bigger turbo in the future so your not replacing everything twice. Just know that if you run that Walbro 255 your going to need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (afpr) since your stock fpr can't keep the stock fuel pressure where it should be.

Yes, dsmlink can run a GM MAF without a MAF translator, all you need is the cable that plugs into your OEM MAF connector and then into the GM MAF. GM MAF Cable

 

[donniekak]

User jrohner dynoed over 400 whp and 450 ft/lbs with e85 and 750's. Most of the calculators don't take into account how much leaner e85 burns compared to lambda.

 

[gofer]

He might have gotten away with running 750's on E85 with that much airflow but what were his IDC's?

 

[TeclipseFTW]

Read some of my recent posts. Your stock regulator should hold just fine.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...-crazy-afpr-rich-down-low-perfect-up-top.html

from a Dsm wiseman, apparently all I would need to install is a new OEM 2g FPR and the 255 wally will work just fine... at least thats what im getting out of his posts... what do you think?

 

[dsm03]

Good post, I need to chime in because I will be in the same route very soon, Got a B16G wanting to do 650cc's running currently 190LPH rewired,, I hear the 190s are good til 500hp... More than I need because its my Daily Driver mostly winter but my goals are 400-450 crank hp..

 

[EclipseTical]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/1606953-post3.html

Good post from wiseman Steve about calculating fuel requirements; came across it when doing research for my setup.