150 shot too big???

[craracer05]

So on pump gas with water meth injection do you think a 150 direct port wet shot will be too much. I also have wiseco pistons,eagle rods,arp head studs,MLS head gasket,stage V slowboy head...etc. I wanna use this for the 1320

 

[Rob10_99]

Sounds ok to me on a built engine, I met a guy that uses a 200shot on a stock turbo!
Going to be pulling any timing while your switched on?

 

[iziegsx]

Just like Rob said once you have a built engine along with supporting mods you should be ok. Just be careful man!

 

[craracer05]

Nitrous kinda scares me but i'm thinkin i might be able to break into the high tens low 11s with a 150 shot. Ya i'm assuming dsmlink has some kind of nitrous timing controls.

 

[JOEY A]

You should be fine, make sure you learn how to read your plugs


vist ls1tech.com and go to there nitrous section, they are alot help and have endless info

 

[TurboAnything]

I would be very careful when trying to spray that high. We did it on a buddies 20g car and it would knock like 20 counts even with more fuel it was knocking be careful.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Most guys do not inject meth or anything along with NOS. Kinda risky. My advise would be to spray with race gas. with a built engine, 150 shot should be ok. What I do is tune on pump gas, then when i spray, I fill it up with race gas. Give it a really conservative tune. The DSM-Link NOS controls make it really easy.

 

[Mikael SS]

Most guys do not inject meth or anything along with NOS. Kinda risky. My advise would be to spray with race gas. with a built engine, 150 shot should be ok. What I do is tune on pump gas, then when i spray, I fill it up with race gas. Give it a really conservative tune. The DSM-Link NOS controls make it really easy.

Whats the problem with meth and n2o?

 

[shortydtp]

1st lower your timming 150hp shot i would do 8-10 degrees advance to redline.

2nd Race gas! if you dont wanna hurt the motor use it.

3rd colder plugs 150hp shot i would use bpr8es

 

[talonTSIDriver]

1st lower your timming 150hp shot i would do 8-10 degrees advance to redline.

2nd Race gas! if you dont wanna hurt the motor use it.

3rd colder plugs 150hp shot i would use bpr8es

just like he said and thats it. No Meth. Spraying all that stuff into a motor is going to make tuning hard. Not to mention thats a lot to depend on, what happens of something in the Meth inj fails, now your running LOADS of NOS and you have .003 seconds before your motor goes pop.

C16 + 150Shot - timing = safe (somewhat)

 

[turboglenn]

As long as the fuel is there to match it the NOS will be fine, but find a way to pull some timing. The rule of thum,b is 2* for every 50HP. The reason it's mainly not sued with meth is that meth is for cooling and anti detonation, and nitrous does WAY more cooling than meth and adds in 33% more oxygen by volume ( normal air is only 26% tops) So the N2o does most of what the meth is there for anyway.

If the motor is built go fo it, we're running a 150 direct port on my buddies 99 GSX witha built 1g 6 bolt motor and it's been fine on pump gas, but race gas would be safer.

 

[rrussell]

IMO I would start out with a 75 shot and see what you run there.

Also I guess your planing on running a direct-port four nozzle system correct?

I'm running a single wet nozzle with a 75 shot at 18psi on my sleeper 16g and have had great results 11.5 to 11.8 at 119mph to 121mph on pump fuel with very few mods.

The water injection system I'm using is a "Devils Own Progressive" system that activates the nitrous system. If the Devils Own system has a glitch (which it never has) the nitrous system wont turn on, because its the nitrous systems power source.

Engine pic.

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[talonTSIDriver]

The water injection system I'm using is a "Devils Own Progressive" system that activates the nitrous system. If the Devils Own system has a glitch (which it never has) the nitrous system wont turn on, because its the nitrous systems power source.

BUT, what happens if your Nozzle for your water injection clogs up, your Nitrious will still activate. Why would you need water injection with NOS? NOS cools the air down 100x more than water, does the water even do anything at that point?

 

[rrussell]

BUT, what happens if your Nozzle for your water injection clogs up, your Nitrious will still activate. Why would you need water injection with NOS? NOS cools the air down 100x more than water, does the water even do anything at that point?

I guess we can play the "what if" games.

What if the nitrous fuel solenoid clogs up.
What if a fuel injector dies or clogs up.
What if the fuel pump fails or fuel filter clogs up.
What if the fuel regulator fails.


I recommend that you check your water injection nozzle and make sure its not clogged up. Its very easy to check and only takes a few minutes. I check mine every month, but I have never seen it plug or clogged.

As for the need of water injection with nitrous oxide. I use the water as a buffer when running on pump fuel. Water will slow down the flame speed that nitrous increases.
So when the nitrous activates the water injection acts like a chemical timing retard.

Plus the water also keeps the combustion chamber and the top of the pistons very clean. This helps for carbon deposits build up that can cause serious problems.

 

[Slippi84]

I guess we can play the "what if" games.

What if the nitrous fuel solenoid clogs up.
What if a fuel injector dies or clogs up.
What if the fuel pump fails or fuel filter clogs up.
What if the fuel regulator fails.


I recommend that you check your water injection nozzle and make sure its not clogged up. Its very easy to check and only takes a few minutes. I check mine every month, but I have never seen it plug or clogged.

As for the need of water injection with nitrous oxide. I use the water as a buffer when running on pump fuel. Water will slow down the flame speed that nitrous increases.
So when the nitrous activates the water injection acts like a chemical timing retard.

Plus the water also keeps the combustion chamber and the top of the pistons very clean. This helps for carbon deposits build up that can cause serious problems.

Your water injection kit my friend isn't doing as much as you think. Nitrous cleans A LOT better than that water your injecting into your engine and just like they said before nitrous is a much better cooler too as water can only cool the air so much. You should go read the thread "Why water injection is the best mod i've ever done" The one thing you are right about though it will make you pump gas a little more knock proof but other than that your nitrous is doing everything your water injection kit is doing...better.

 

[rrussell]

Your water injection kit my friend isn't doing as much as you think. Nitrous cleans A LOT better than that water your injecting into your engine and just like they said before nitrous is a much better cooler too as water can only cool the air so much. You should go read the thread "Why water injection is the best mod i've ever done" The one thing you are right about though it will make you pump gas a little more knock proof but other than that your nitrous is doing everything your water injection kit is doing...better.

Keep in mind that this is a daily driver. The water injection comes on every time I get into boost. The nitrous only comes on when its armed and that's at the track. So its cleaning the combustion chamber and the top of the piston when I'm just out driving around.

Have you ever seen the combustion chamber and the tops of the pistons on a engine that has ran water injection? Its very impressive!!!

On my application my IAT logs show a major decrease with water/meth injection + nitrous verses nitrous alone. Enough that I made only one 3rd gear pull and never did it again without the water/meth injection. Would the decrease be a lot less on a car running a FMIC probably, how much I do not know.

I will look at your "why water injection is the best mod Ive ever done"

I did a quick read of the above mention post. A lot of it I already have read in other forums. You stated that you were getting water injection and nitrous also are you running both or just one?

 

[Slippi84]

Keep in mind that this is a daily driver. The water injection comes on every time I get into boost. The nitrous only comes on when its armed and that's at the track. So its cleaning the combustion chamber and the top of the piston when I'm just out driving around.

Have you ever seen the combustion chamber and the tops of the pistons on a engine that has ran water injection? Its very impressive!!!

On my application my IAT logs show a major decrease with water/meth injection + nitrous verses nitrous alone. Enough that I made only one 3rd gear pull and never did it again without the water/meth injection. Would the decrease be a lot less on a car running a FMIC probably, how much I do not know.

I will look at your "why water injection is the best mod Ive ever done"

I did a quick read of the above mention post. A lot of it I already have read in other forums. You stated that you were getting water injection and nitrous also are you running both or just one?

Are you asking me about my old setup or current because I was gonna run both on my old car on my new platform I have a built engine and I will have a dedicated fuel cell with c16 that will connect to the fuel input of my zex kit so I don't really have need for a water injection kit but I didn't know you had the water on everytime you hit boost that is the best style to get and is really good for a dd boost car looking to run a little more boost.

 

[craracer05]

Yes i will be running a direct port setup. I plan on running water/meth injection the whole time i'm driving on the street and only use the nitrous at the track. Similar to rrussell.

 

[Slippi84]

If your looking to spray that much I would greatly suggest looking into nano nitrous I think people would be amazed how much better performance you get when using nano kits in conjunction with your exsisting kit. I will be using a progressive 200 shot with a nano kit on my car after it's broken in.

 

[rrussell]

Are you asking me about my old setup or current because I was gonna run both on my old car on my new platform I have a built engine and I will have a dedicated fuel cell with c16 that will connect to the fuel input of my zex kit so I don't really have need for a water injection kit but I didn't know you had the water on everytime you hit boost that is the best style to get and is really good for a dd boost car looking to run a little more boost.

Your present car is the one I was asking about.

Your new setup is like what I ran on my VW N/A car.

I had a single wet and a direct port.

The nitrous direct port system had its own fuel cell and low pressure Holley pump that was ran to a dead-head Holley regulator. The single nozzle ran off the efi's pump high pressure fuel system.

The idea of a low pressure system is so I could run a 80shot on the direct port with bigger fuel jets. I ran it at 8psi fuel pressure with .021 nitrous jets and .018 fuel jets flowing at 8psi fuel pressure.

My reasoning other then its the same way my 9.14@152 Camaro is setup is that any fuel jet smaller then a .018 has more of a chance of clogging up. Plus it gave me a way to add fuel to the engine by making minor pressure adjustments to the Holley fuel regulator using a nitrous fuel flow tool. Plus pulling fuel off the rail like I'm running now concerns me if it might be messing with fuel rail distribution pressure?

So the direct port would run anywhere from a nitrous to fuel ratio of 5.0:1 to 5.8:1 depending on fuel type and plug readings that day.

The other thing by using a low pressure dead head style system is the fuel pressure will spike to about 16psi before activation then drop to 8psi once activated. This acts like a throttle accelerator pump function on a efi system. It would take the hard hit away from the direct port.

Enough rambling Off to work I go.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

^^^ Some good info.

I am not a big NOS guy, just used it a few times to take on some of those v8 straightline guys. Then I kinda got hooked and its nice to have in the car for those times you really need it. Its CHEAP HP for those straight-line races. Acctually i used it once just for fun on a road-course, HOLY CRAP! (I had it setup with DSM-link to auto-activate)

 

[Slippi84]

Your present car is the one I was asking about.

Your new setup is like what I ran on my VW N/A car.

I had a single wet and a direct port.

The nitrous direct port system had its own fuel cell and low pressure Holley pump that was ran to a dead-head Holley regulator. The single nozzle ran off the efi's pump high pressure fuel system.

The idea of a low pressure system is so I could run a 80shot on the direct port with bigger fuel jets. I ran it at 8psi fuel pressure with .021 nitrous jets and .018 fuel jets flowing at 8psi fuel pressure.

My reasoning other then its the same way my 9.14@152 Camaro is setup is that any fuel jet smaller then a .018 has more of a chance of clogging up. Plus it gave me a way to add fuel to the engine by making minor pressure adjustments to the Holley fuel regulator using a nitrous fuel flow tool. Plus pulling fuel off the rail like I'm running now concerns me if it might be messing with fuel rail distribution pressure?

So the direct port would run anywhere from a nitrous to fuel ratio of 5.0:1 to 5.8:1 depending on fuel type and plug readings that day.

The other thing by using a low pressure dead head style system is the fuel pressure will spike to about 16psi before activation then drop to 8psi once activated. This acts like a throttle accelerator pump function on a efi system. It would take the hard hit away from the direct port.

Enough rambling Off to work I go.

I thought about something like that with a direct port and a single setup but to be honest I don't want nitrous to take too long to activate that's why I scrapped the dual stage one in first gear the second with a first gear lock out style setup because I will be running slicks probably 99.9% of the time I run the nitrous or if it's on the road It won't be any set distance so I can just wait till i'm in second gear and flip the activation switch if I see that the other car is pulling on me or something. I checked out nitrous outlet's site and they sell dedicated kits for like 7-900 bucs with fuel cel regulator fuel feed line and walbro pump I will probably pick up and run c16 in there straight to the fuel inlet on the zex box mainly cause I don't want to have to worry about how much or what grade fuel I have in my regular tank. Instead of using mechanical or physical fuel modication tech. i'm gonna give safc2 and a howell af/x ecu a shot. I tried messing with fuel pressure to fix fuel concerns with my old 90 tsi I wasn't a fan of the results. But the big thing I think will make my setup is nano nitrous kit.

 

[Slippi84]

^^^ Some good info.

I am not a big NOS guy, just used it a few times to take on some of those v8 straightline guys. Then I kinda got hooked and its nice to have in the car for those times you really need it. Its CHEAP HP for those straight-line races. Acctually i used it once just for fun on a road-course, HOLY CRAP! (I had it setup with DSM-link to auto-activate)

Unless you don't like Nitrous Oxide System the company that is a off brand of holley then your not a big fan of nitrous

 

[rrussell]

i'm gonna give safc2 and a howell af/x ecu a shot. I tried messing with fuel pressure to fix fuel concerns with my old 90 tsi I wasn't a fan of the results. But the big thing I think will make my setup is nano nitrous kit.

The Nano system by David Koehler sounds awsome!!!!

I'm very interested in the safc2 and the howell af/x. Do you have a link? or more info on it?

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Gamble97]

What if you don't have dsmlink to pull timing? What can you do with an safc or no management?
I ask because I ran into someone that is running a dry shot on a bone stock car.