14b upgrade on 2g daily driver advice, opinions?

[chelfy]

Whats up everyone I have a 97 gst spyder that is used as a daily driver with about 95k on it. I want to do the 14b upgrade because it seems like it would fit my needs, more power without a lot of $$ and still a reliable low maintenace vehicle. I have read many articles, but they do tend to differ in opinion as to what is needed and some people have reported having problems with boost creep.

the parts i am planning on getting are a RRE t25 to 14b kit, 14b turbo, intake/filter, 1g bov, manual boost controller, boost gauge, and safc.

Do I need to invest in exhaust, downpipe, cat, 02 housing as well for this upgrade and if not how much more will these expensive upgrades yield roughly. A quiet exhaust is important to me.

thanks everyone

 

[CanadianTSi]

The S-AFC is not needed.

If your going to stay at a relatively low power level then you could get a 2.5" exhaust which will free up some power but also keep your chances of getting boost creep low.

 

[chelfy]

Any advice as to where to find a good low mileage or rebuilt 14b? It seems they are scarce on ebay and I can't find them on any sites.

 

[flinguist]

You can get a new one from turbochargers.com http://www.turbochargers.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21_30&products_id=427 Cost the same as a new 16g. If you find a used one that needs work, you can get it rebuilt. I found one in the classifieds- http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=52767&cat=all

 

[fulanititoo8198]

I would just save up for a 16g. It's to risky buying a used 14b now a days. Unless your buying it in person. They are old cracked leaking etc. So a good one is hard to find. Plus with a 16g you can get more power later on. I would suggest just keeping the t25 and wait for a 16g. Meanwhile you could get all the other supporting parts you need.

 

[chelfy]

I have been looking at 16g's now that you mention it. It seems the evo III 16g's are very popular and affordable. With an evo III, would a walbro 255 fuel pump/safc/mbc/greddy bov/ be sufficient or would i need to replace everything including larger injectors/downpipe/cat/exhaust/o2 housing/intercooler/exhaust manifold. I don't need to get everything out of the turbo, not planning on dragging, just want to increase performance and keep er reliable Oh i ran by this on ebay, do they make generic turbos? The deal seems way too good to be true

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330034498487&fromMakeTrack=true

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I usually don't recomend this, but if you don't intend to max the turbo out (just have to hope it doesn't max itself out by accident ) a 190 will suffice and not bollix your idle/cruise fuel pressure or require an AFPR. If you can budget for it, I would suggest the 255 and an AFPR.

The stock injectors, at best, support a touch over 30 lbs/min. A 14b will do 30 lbs/min, an EVO 16g will flow 42 lbs/min which is enough to outrun 550s. I agree with the above post, the 14b these days is risky. A few years ago I could pick them up locally for 100-150 bucks in great shape all day long. Now they are just too old in many cases, and you can't trust anyone.

So, the budget route for the 16g with the easiest tuning is the 190 and 550s. Ideally one would go for the 255 and AFPR for the pump, and 650s plus injector correction (DSMlink, keydiver, etc (or retarding base timing a couple degrees for 1Gs is an option too)) for the injectors.

I hate answering questions like this, because it is always a compromise. After 6 years of assing around with and getting screwed by these cars I have learned to just set it up right from the start. It's much more expensive up front, but makes more sense (and doesn't drive you nuts) in the long run. And the more you know about these cars, the more complicated these simple decisions become.

 

[chelfy]

I usually don't recomend this, but if you don't intend to max the turbo out (just have to hope it doesn't max itself out by accident ) a 190 will suffice and not bollix your idle/cruise fuel pressure or require an AFPR. If you can budget for it, I would suggest the 255 and an AFPR.

The stock injectors, at best, support a touch over 30 lbs/min. A 14b will do 30 lbs/min, an EVO 16g will flow 42 lbs/min which is enough to outrun 550s. I agree with the above post, the 14b these days is risky. A few years ago I could pick them up locally for 100-150 bucks in great shape all day long. Now they are just too old in many cases, and you can't trust anyone.

So, the budget route for the 16g with the easiest tuning is the 190 and 550s. Ideally one would go for the 255 and AFPR for the pump, and 650s plus injector correction (DSMlink, keydiver, etc (or retarding base timing a couple degrees for 1Gs is an option too)) for the injectors.

I hate answering questions like this, because it is always a compromise. After 6 years of assing around with and getting screwed by these cars I have learned to just set it up right from the start. It's much more expensive up front, but makes more sense (and doesn't drive you nuts) in the long run. And the more you know about these cars, the more complicated these simple decisions become.

by don't max it out, do you mean 15lbs or ....? I want to be able to drive it hard once in a while w/out worrying about running lean, would i really have to worry about running lean with a 190 and 550's with 15-17lbs?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

By maxing it out I mean reaching it's max flow capacity. Boost is simply a byproduct of flow and restriction (well not that simply, since boost also affects flow, so it's a bit of a self serving cycle, but you get the idea). The boost it takes to reach a given airflow level depends on several factors, both specific to your setup, and environmental. I would estimate that at 15-17 psi on an EVO 16g you would be close enough to the ~32 lb limit of the stock injectors to keep it in mind. The 190 is very close to being enough for the EVO3 maxed out, so that will be fine in this example. Something I always point out though is that boost can and does get away from people at times. Exhaust manifold melts the MBC/WGA vacuum line, etc. If you size the fuel system to support the max flow the turbo can produce you'll be covered and 99% of the time your hardware will survive the time it takes you to realize something is up and let off. Again, experience tends to make you more cautious and willing to prevent those one time occurrances that can ruin your whole shit. It all comes down to your personal risk tolerance and budget.

 

[chelfy]

thanks bro, i really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. it looks like I have a lot to learn I think for my budget i may still go with the 190 and stock injectors running 14lbs until i can afford a more optimal setup. I was just looking at RRE's site with their upgrade path which is what i most likely will loosely follow. anyone have any strong objections to their path
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2gupgradepath.htm

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know what the stock whp of the 97 gst is and what a 16g turbo running at 13-14lbs on a gst will typically gane in whp? I know this a vague question, maybe I should ask how much different does the car feel/pull