11's are they to far away

[awdburnout]

im new on this site....just wonder if it is possible to run 11's with a big 16g turbo. ported and clipped,i have a friend with a completely built motor help out

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by awdburnout
im new on this site....just wonder if it is possible to run 11's with a big 16g turbo. ported and clipped,i have a friend with a completely built motor help out

same motor, same turbo, same drive train, and same weight of an evo. And evo's can run 11's with about 4k.

 

[DSMSpyder99]

it IS possible but the FASTEST b16G time is 11.77. It would alot easier to get a TD06 20G they milking every ounce of power out of a 16G

http://www.dsmtimes.org/turbo.htm

 

[DSMSpyder99]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
same motor, same turbo, same drive train, and same weight of an evo. And evo's can run 11's with about 4k.

same motor- WRONG they have the same block but it is a highly evolved version from our motor. This is like saying a Chevy 350 from the 60's it the same as the LS1 used in Camaro, T/A, and Corvettes.

same turbo- WRONG while our 16G is the standard bushing type. EVO have a Twin Scroll Turbine which is by far a better design

same drivetrain- WRONG DSM have an open front, Viscous Coupled , an OPTIONAL lsd in the rear. EVO has Viscous Coupled, Center Differential, Front Open-Type Differential and a Rear Mechanical Limited-Slip Differential.

same weight- well 1 out of 4 aint bad

EVO and DSM are very different the 4G63 has been around since the 70'S and has evolved numerous amount of times with new and better technology

 

[dsm4life]

Originally posted by DSMSpyder99
same motor- WRONG they have the same block but it is a highly evolved version from our motor. This is like saying a Chevy 350 from the 60's it the same as the LS1 used in Camaro, T/A, and Corvettes.

same turbo- WRONG while our 16G is the standard bushing type. EVO have a Twin Scroll Turbine which is by far a better design

same drivetrain- WRONG DSM have an open front, Viscous Coupled , an OPTIONAL lsd in the rear. EVO has Viscous Coupled, Center Differential, Front Open-Type Differential and a Rear Mechanical Limited-Slip Differential.

same weight- well 1 out of 4 aint bad

EVO and DSM are very different the 4G63 has been around since the 70'S and has evolved numerous amount of times with new and better technology

damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

(j/k)

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by DSMSpyder99
same motor- WRONG they have the same block but it is a highly evolved version from our motor. This is like saying a Chevy 350 from the 60's it the same as the LS1 used in Camaro, T/A, and Corvettes.

same turbo- WRONG while our 16G is the standard bushing type. EVO have a Twin Scroll Turbine which is by far a better design

same drivetrain- WRONG DSM have an open front, Viscous Coupled , an OPTIONAL lsd in the rear. EVO has Viscous Coupled, Center Differential, Front Open-Type Differential and a Rear Mechanical Limited-Slip Differential.

same weight- well 1 out of 4 aint bad

EVO and DSM are very different the 4G63 has been around since the 70'S and has evolved numerous amount of times with new and better technology

First off jack ass, it is far from comparing an old 350 to an ls1. An old 350 from the 60's would be lucky to put down 200 at the cost of 6 mpg, but it's funny how this ice aged motor as you make it seem with the same turbo at about, let me pick some random number here, 19 psi makes near the same power as the super duper evo motor. then when some one around here says 16g I assume they meant they swapped out there t25 for the evo turbo, as for the drive train goes well, I dont see the gsx's having problems cuttin the 1.8's so,

So I guess um, there was no real reason to run your mouth, was there?

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Im afraid 14.5 is wrong. The EVO engine has a diferent block, crank, forged rods and pistons, is reveresed, has diferent cams, lifter, valve springs, retainers. port size, head geometry....compression...

The only thing that makes it remotely like a DSM engine is that it has the same bore and stroke...

The evo turbo has a twin scroll 9.5 turbine housing and a larger different compressor the Big 16G, all the share is a name...

Although both turbos are standard oil buching.

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Im afraid 14.5 is wrong. The EVO engine has a diferent block, crank, forged rods and pistons, is reveresed, has diferent cams, lifter, valve springs, retainers. port size, head geometry....compression...

The only thing that makes it remotely like a DSM engine is that it has the same bore and stroke...

The evo turbo has a twin scroll 9.5 turbine housing and a larger different compressor the Big 16G, all the share is a name...

Although both turbos are standard oil buching.

Groovy, now put a twin scroll 16g on it running 19 psi (same as an evo) and how much hp do you get? All he asked about was the 1/4 mile times so if any one cares to comment their opinion on the above question, thats what this thread is here for.

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
19 psi makes near the same power as the super duper evo motor.

omfg you must be kidding me.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

You couldn't put on on a dsm without getting rid of power steering and making a crazy down pipe....incompatible turbos...

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
omfg you must be kidding me.

Why would I lie?

 

[dsmturboawd]

youre not lying. youre just misinformed and flat out wrong.

 

[awdburnout]

the motor is completely built the big 16g is on it for now,what kind of turbo upgrade is recommended its stroked to 2.4 liter wanting to hit low 11's thanks

 

[DSMSpyder99]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
First off jack ass, it is far from comparing an old 350 to an ls1. An old 350 from the 60's would be lucky to put down 200 at the cost of 6 mpg, but it's funny how this ice aged motor as you make it seem with the same turbo at about, let me pick some random number here, 19 psi makes near the same power as the super duper evo motor. then when some one around here says 16g I assume they meant they swapped out there t25 for the evo turbo, as for the drive train goes well, I dont see the gsx's having problems cuttin the 1.8's so,

So I guess um, there was no real reason to run your mouth, was there?

OK first tough guy the LS1 is BASED on the old 350's. WTF does HP have to do with anything i dont know why you grab numbers out of your a$$. All i said is LS1 are "modern" version of the old 350's. THe same goes with the EVO 4G63 are "modern" version of our motors. As for the whole 16G and drivetrain...if you have known that EVO have been around since the introduction in early 90's in Japan. The first 3 version had the SAME exact motor as ours. WHen people refer to an EVO turbo it is from a 1st - 3rd generation Evo. When the 4th gen was introduced they re-introduced the better version of the 4G63. The engine was the same 4G63. A twin-scroll turbocharger improved performance that generated more torque in the low and medium range. Also a secondary air induction system improved turbo on-off response by feeding pressurized air above the turbine and reducing negative pressure. By far a better design from DSM engines. It is simple you can not compare a EVO 4G63 to a DSM 4G63 they are in different worlds

 

[Revolution]

Hi every body ( hi mr. revolution) :laugh: (the simpsons)

Ok any how lets get the facts straight first.

1) The 4g63 in the evo's are seven bolts and the only seven bolts that can be compared to any dsm would be the evo 1 through 3.

2) They are the exact same seven bolt as all the second gens only deffiring by the bolt on's like exhaust mani /turbo /intercooler/injectors.

3) You dont hear the evo's crankwalking because they were properly made BY MITSUBISHI and not a foreign manufacturer .

4) The turbo is twin scroll with bigger inducer and exducer blades, plus the exhaust housing is a tad bigger and lighter. check out www.slowboyracing.com and see their comparison. plus I owned one and did extensive research b4 buying a 16g.

5) The transmision layout is correct , ours only fails in comparison because of the mechanical lsd's .

6) All comparisons were done to distinguish all dsm's from the lancer evolution's 1 to 3 . Every body knows (or should know) that after the evo three mitsubishi decided to make a transvers engine basically switching the 4g63 from the right to the left . (the way the turbo induces)

7) All the evos including the resent models are (TRUE) seven bolts the reason mitsu decided to go with the seven bolt was because it was ultimatelly a lighter engine that responded quicker.
All seven bolt dsm's share the same internals.with minor differences as to oiling sumps.

8) Are you fed up yet? j/k j/k j/k

9) Back on the true topic yes you can go elevens on the evo 3 turbo WITH THE SUPPORTING MODS it all has to do with proper tuning and maintanence.

I originally was going to try and break the fastest evo turbo record untill I got my selfe intangeled in a race with some rich boys and their supras /porshes . Now I will be sporting a fp 3052 and try and make a record for that turbo .

But yes you can ,,, just make shure that all of you'r tranny will be able to take it , that and tune you'r suspension, some one told me that by having the dampening in the front half way and the rear fully tuned hard that the hole shot we become more efficiant.

I personally havent tried so right now it's just hear say , but hearsay in the right way is better than no say in any way.

 

[AWDspoOLiN]

What's number 8?

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by awdburnout
the motor is completely built the big 16g is on it for now,what kind of turbo upgrade is recommended its stroked to 2.4 liter wanting to hit low 11's thanks

t3/t4 would be better suited for a motor with that displacement. And knowing that you will be seeing 11's with no problems dude. Stand alone, big turbo, and that baby will fly. BTW wich chassis will it be going in?

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
youre not lying. youre just misinformed and flat out wrong.

I havn't been missinformed. Think about it like this. Stock the eclipse T25 is pushing a very inefficient 12 psi. Take the 12 psi add 14.7 (atmospheric pressure) and you got 26.7. Now we have 26.7 psi making 215 at the crank. Wich equates to about 8 hp per pound. Ask your self how much more psi on top of 26.7 does this motor need to be right around 276 at the fly. Also the stock air induction and exhaust systems are inneficient. Once you start modding (dp, up, catback, intercooleretc...) the value of hp per pound goes up. According to this system, wich isn't perfect, if a t25 could efficiently hold 19 psi we would be at 270 hp at the crank.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by DSMSpyder99
OK first tough guy the LS1 is BASED on the old 350's. WTF does HP have to do with anything i dont know why you grab numbers out of your a$$. All i said is LS1 are "modern" version of the old 350's. THe same goes with the EVO 4G63 are "modern" version of our motors. As for the whole 16G and drivetrain...if you have known that EVO have been around since the introduction in early 90's in Japan. The first 3 version had the SAME exact motor as ours. WHen people refer to an EVO turbo it is from a 1st - 3rd generation Evo. When the 4th gen was introduced they re-introduced the better version of the 4G63. The engine was the same 4G63. A twin-scroll turbocharger improved performance that generated more torque in the low and medium range. Also a secondary air induction system improved turbo on-off response by feeding pressurized air above the turbine and reducing negative pressure. By far a better design from DSM engines. It is simple you can not compare a EVO 4G63 to a DSM 4G63 they are in different worlds

The LT1 was the last Chevy engine based on the 350. The LS1 is a ll new 346. People call it a 350 out of habit but it's not.

Aside from that its all true though

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by Revolution
Hi every body ( hi mr. revolution) :laugh: (the simpsons)

Ok any how lets get the facts straight first.

1) The 4g63 in the evo's are seven bolts and the only seven bolts that can be compared to any dsm would be the evo 1 through 3.

2) They are the exact same seven bolt as all the second gens only deffiring by the bolt on's like exhaust mani /turbo /intercooler/injectors.

3) You dont hear the evo's crankwalking because they were properly made BY MITSUBISHI and not a foreign manufacturer .

4) The turbo is twin scroll with bigger inducer and exducer blades, plus the exhaust housing is a tad bigger and lighter. check out www.slowboyracing.com and see their comparison. plus I owned one and did extensive research b4 buying a 16g.

5) The transmision layout is correct , ours only fails in comparison because of the mechanical lsd's .

6) All comparisons were done to distinguish all dsm's from the lancer evolution's 1 to 3 . Every body knows (or should know) that after the evo three mitsubishi decided to make a transvers engine basically switching the 4g63 from the right to the left . (the way the turbo induces)

7) All the evos including the resent models are (TRUE) seven bolts the reason mitsu decided to go with the seven bolt was because it was ultimatelly a lighter engine that responded quicker.
All seven bolt dsm's share the same internals.with minor differences as to oiling sumps.

8) Are you fed up yet? j/k j/k j/k

9) Back on the true topic yes you can go elevens on the evo 3 turbo WITH THE SUPPORTING MODS it all has to do with proper tuning and maintanence.

I originally was going to try and break the fastest evo turbo record untill I got my selfe intangeled in a race with some rich boys and their supras /porshes . Now I will be sporting a fp 3052 and try and make a record for that turbo .

But yes you can ,,, just make shure that all of you'r tranny will be able to take it , that and tune you'r suspension, some one told me that by having the dampening in the front half way and the rear fully tuned hard that the hole shot we become more efficiant.

I personally havent tried so right now it's just hear say , but hearsay in the right way is better than no say in any way.

You're talking about EVO's 1-3 for no reason. We are talking about the US EVO. And EVO's are not DSM's. The comparisons you should have made are:

1. The EVO engine is a 7 bolt flywheel but its not comparable to the EVO 1-3 engine or any DSM engine. The EVO 1-3 engine is basically a 2g Engine with a better TB and turbo.

2. They are completely dissimilair from 2g engine. Far more different from 2g engines then 2g engines are from 1g engines.

3. Mitsubishi is a foriegn manufacturer. Who manufactured 2g blocks?

4. The Turbo on the US evo and all EVO's from 4-8 is completely and uttery different from the EVO3 turbo slowboy sells.

5. All US evo's have mechanical LSD's as well.

6. right to left or left to right, both are Transverse.

Now leave EVO's 1-3 out, were discussing why the EVO 8 is not a comparable thing, we all know the 1-3 are.

 

[DSMSpyder99]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
I havn't been missinformed. Think about it like this. Stock the eclipse T25 is pushing a very inefficient 12 psi. Take the 12 psi add 14.7 (atmospheric pressure) and you got 26.7. Now we have 26.7 psi making 215 at the crank. Wich equates to about 8 hp per pound. Ask your self how much more psi on top of 26.7 does this motor need to be right around 276 at the fly. Also the stock air induction and exhaust systems are inneficient. Once you start modding (dp, up, catback, intercooleretc...) the value of hp per pound goes up. According to this system, wich isn't perfect, if a t25 could efficiently hold 19 psi we would be at 270 hp at the crank.

a turbocharged set up has a closed route atmospheric pressure barely makes an impact compared to a N/A. Why you ask well all the air getting sucked in by the intake get compressed in seconds then shoot through the LICP, through the I/C and back up through the UICP straight into the intake manifold. A N/A car would just suck non-compressed air striaght into in intake manifold. Further more, every know that the T-25 maxs out at 15-16 psi not 12. A t-25 can NEVER flow as good a 16G. A t-25 cfm is about 250 and a 16G cfm is about 550. That double the flow rate which no minor bolt-on can make for. Also adding an intercooler in a T-too small would make a dramatic pressure drop that the atmosphere will start effecting you performance out of a T-25

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
I havn't been missinformed. Think about it like this. Stock the eclipse T25 is pushing a very inefficient 12 psi. Take the 12 psi add 14.7 (atmospheric pressure) and you got 26.7. Now we have 26.7 psi making 215 at the crank. Wich equates to about 8 hp per pound. Ask your self how much more psi on top of 26.7 does this motor need to be right around 276 at the fly. Also the stock air induction and exhaust systems are inneficient. Once you start modding (dp, up, catback, intercooleretc...) the value of hp per pound goes up. According to this system, wich isn't perfect, if a t25 could efficiently hold 19 psi we would be at 270 hp at the crank.

...You think 19 psi out of a T25 on a 2g and 19 PSI on an EVO are anywhere near the same air flow?

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
...You think 19 psi out of a T25 on a 2g and 19 PSI on an EVO are anywhere near the same air flow?

Why do people rather than try and correct me just try and look all smart and try and make me look like an ass. The reason I used the t25 was to calculate out a hp figure from the factory efficincy table. Like I said the t25 makes roughly 8 hp per pound. A twin scroll 16 would undoubtedly make more as it is leaps and bounds more efficient then a t25. Not to try and guess how much more it would make I took an imaginary t25 that can blow 19 lbs and calculated that.

DSMSpyder99, the intake system is an unsealed so it does have the same affects under the weight of any given atmospheric pressure it is exposed to. The the only thing I am failing to under stand is why the 4g's turbo setup is so inefficient. As you can tell from my name I come from nissans, the sr20 is able to make the same amount of power on the same turbo but at only 7 psi. With 14 lbs on a t25 the sr puts out about 250. After looking under the hood I came to the conclusion that a transvearse motor setup might produce more heat. Why else would nearly an identical motor under identical loads have so much less power. The sr20 manifold/turbo is more exposed and might catch wind and disapate heat better. Unless the motor in na form has only about 110 hp mitsu din't have the best of engineers piece this thing together now did they?

 

[awdburnout]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
t3/t4 would be better suited for a motor with that displacement. And knowing that you will be seeing 11's with no problems dude. Stand alone, big turbo, and that baby will fly. BTW wich chassis will it be going in?

the chassis its going into is the 1st gen eagle talon, the tranny is a built auto.

 

[14.5 drift]

as listed in your sig, sorry I didn't see that before. If it were me as I said the 16 is not the best thing for you. You Are building an all out street track machine, no? I would invest in a gt25/gt30 and find a nice 100 shot to get you out of the hole, again, a stand alone to moniter every thing happening in that very expensive motor and that car will scoot.