Won't Turn Over// Starter?

[abaddon_baliel]

OK, so I've been having electrical/starting issues with this car since I got it.

It's a 7-bolt spyder gst. At first, it was throwin' up CELs and the car would chug but wouldn't turn over. I replaced a simple vac. hose and it started right up. (IDK why the prev. owner removed it).

Then the alt. blew (knew it was goin bad when I bought it), so it was out till I got a new one. I put a H/O 135a alt from Alterstart in, again started right up. The belt still squeaks after 2 mo. of operation, but I've heard that's normal.

Then the battery went. It was old and corroded, so I replaced it with a brand new one. Now the battery is losing charge, and I've returned it twice, each time the battery was being drained. So something is draining the charge from the battery. I couldn't even jump it before I replaced the battery. I had turned the car on, it took a while to turn on like it didn't want to, then my wife had to go back into the house so I had to turn the car off to give her the key. Then it wouldn't even try to turn back on. When a battery goes, it clicks, or tries. This is like... nothing.

I turn the key, and I hear something electrical, but it makes like a ___ sound... Idk how to explain it, I'm not a mechanic. It just sounds like something electrical comes on, and it's one flatline sound. The pitch doesn't change, there is no clicking, and the car doesn't even attempt to turn over.

I'm thinking it's the starter now, since it's the only thing left electrical that I haven't replaced already. I need this car running because I have no other vehicle.

So from what I've said, what do you guys think? I'm really wanting a confirmation that it's the starter so I can just replace it and be done with it, but I only have one shot. I don't have any cash right now, so my gma would be lending me the money, and she's not gonna pay to fix 5 different things, so I'm trying to knock it out on the first try. I got the new battery as my xmas, if that tells you anything.

I can take any pictures you want. I'm not mechanical, but if you give me a step by step guide I can check anything out that needs checking. I have access to tools. I just need to get this car running asap.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[sniver]

Ok first thing I would check is to ensure you have more than 11.7ish volts with the car off, and also with the key forward.
Next I would turn the key to crank and have somebody ensure that it has the same voltage as before. If this checks out you going to need to see if you have power to the starter. there are two wire to the starter. one is a large main positive, and there is a plug that clips on the solenoid that is the trigger wire. pull the trigger wire off and see if it has the battery voltage(11.7 or higher) when the key is turned to crank.
If you have voltage at that wire when attempting to start , that leaves you with; bad main positive wire, or engine ground,and lastly the starter.

Try getting something heavy and giving the starter a couple whacks, this usually will allow the starter to move a hair and turn the motor over.

Start here and post back, I could type a manual of what to do, but I'd hate to If I already covered the answer.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Ok first thing I would check is to ensure you have more than 11.7ish volts with the car off, and also with the key forward.
Next I would turn the key to crank and have somebody ensure that it has the same voltage as before. If this checks out you going to need to see if you have power to the starter. there are two wire to the starter. one is a large main positive, and there is a plug that clips on the solenoid that is the trigger wire. pull the trigger wire off and see if it has the battery voltage(11.7 or higher) when the key is turned to crank.
If you have voltage at that wire when attempting to start , that leaves you with; bad main positive wire, or engine ground,and lastly the starter.

Try getting something heavy and giving the starter a couple whacks, this usually will allow the starter to move a hair and turn the motor over.

Start here and post back, I could type a manual of what to do, but I'd hate to If I already covered the answer.

I'll do this first thing tomorrow, and I'll get back with you.

 

[dsmgsx98]

If the battery is getting drained, i would bet it has something to do with that alt you put on the car!!! Do you have a set of jumper cables or a charge box to hook up to the battery, just to get the right voltage to the starter?? and you need a volt meter to check the amps coming out of that alt and the battery!!

 

[crazyboy81]

The flatline sound is your fuel pump coming on. You hear it with almost every car. It's normal.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

If the battery is getting drained, i would bet it has something to do with that alt you put on the car!!! Do you have a set of jumper cables or a charge box to hook up to the battery, just to get the right voltage to the starter?? and you need a volt meter to check the amps coming out of that alt and the battery!!

Yes, I've both jumped and charged the battery, no power to the starter. I do not have a volt meter, and I do not know if I can get access to one. I really hope it's not the alternator, it's brand new. idk...

 

[dsmgsx98]

Well i was think ing it has some thing to do with the alt because its not charging the battery, did you make sure all the fuses are good and the relay for the starter is working !! and its going to be really hard to help you without more info, like if volts change when you try to start the car verses the car in the on postion. Try to find a volts meter, help us help you, Bro.

 

[Locke]

As dsmgsx98 mentioned, sorting electrical issues without some form of a VOM is very difficult. If you are hard up for cash, most hardware and autoparts stores sell cheap (5 or 10 bucks) multimeters that will work well enough for most jobs.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

I think my grandpa might have one, he's coming over later today if it's not too bad out and we're gonna test some things. I might get a new starter anyways because I'm pretty sure mine was going bad, and I'll be rewiring everything so hopefully that fixes anything. If not, guess I'll just post it back here what I did and where to go from there. Thanks guys.

Problem solved! Twas the starter. Turns over and starts like a champ now. Thanks for the help!

 

[dsmgsx98]

Did you ever figure out what was draining the battery?

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Did you ever figure out what was draining the battery?

No ### it's fine now. I'm assuming it was pulling really hard trying to turn the car over? I don't have a clue, because it's not being drained now.

 

[dsmgsx98]

I am glad you fix everything, sorry we couldn't help more!

 

[abaddon_baliel]

I am glad you fix everything, sorry we couldn't help more!

You guys were help, you let me eliminate a lot of other issues before replacing the starter. Now I know everything works right. Thanks a lot.

Tune in next time for "Web of Frustration: A Spyder Tale"


or, if things actually go well, it'll be "How I Merc'd Your Mustang"

 

[TSi Kid]

Might be that the starter was draining the battery.
Good to hear you got it running.

 

[sniver]

Glad its all better now!

Just for future reference if somebodies searching, to see how to find a parasitic drain, I figure I could state how.

Pull the neg. terminal. Get a single filament brake light bulb(and socket if that makes it easier). Connect one lead to the neg. battery post, and connect the other lead to the neg. cable( that is not connected to the batt,right?). Initially, the bulb will illuminate brightly, and then it will start to dim down. 1gs take 15 seconds, 2gs take until all the computers power down,haven't experianced a 2g, but should be good in 5mins.
It should result in a bulb were the wires barely glowing. This means no parasitic draw

If it never dims down, and stays rather bright then you have to figure out what system is the culprit. Start with the main fuses. Then once you determine the system, then you find the sub fuses. Once you find the sub fuse, there should be a hand full of items. Figure out which module,relay,ect. is the culprit. Once found the light will go super dim.

You could also use a digital multimeter, I do at chevy, I just am not sure the "normal" milliamp pull on our dsms.



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[abaddon_baliel]

Well ####, I give up on this car. It won't turn over again, after running fine for 2 days. It just cranks and sputters but never turns over.

Has 135a h/o alternator, brand new. Brand new starter. Brand new battery. New terminals, wires are all good. Everything is nice and tight. Fuel pump is good, filter is good.

idk wtf else would be wrong with this car.

 

[Locke]

You still need a multimeter. It's a lot cheaper than throwing random expensive parts at it.

 

[Detective Coating]

Sounds like a bad ground to me. Replace your terminals and wiring and sand all areas where you have a grounding connection, especially the one from the battery to the firewall.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Sounds like a bad ground to me. Replace your terminals and wiring and sand all areas where you have a grounding connection, especially the one from the battery to the firewall.

Already did that. As I said, all wires are fine, I ran every test I could think of. Nothing is draining anything, all wires are good, everything is tight, terminals are brand new, battery connections are clean, everything is good. It ran fine for 2 days, started right up and ran like a champ, and now it just sputters. I turned it off and on multiple times in those 2 days to see if it would have a problem again, and nothing. Right up every time. idk wth is wrong. I'm sure I'll figure it out by the end of the day though.

I can't work on it till my wife gets back from the dentist to watch the kids tho, but i'll have her take some vids of what it does if it's not fixed after a while and post 'em up. I'll have her get close ups of all the affected areas.

 

[knochgoon24]

Did you even get a multimeter yet?

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Did you even get a multimeter yet?

No and I only have 11 dollars. Even if I got one I couldn't fix the problem.

So it just started, shook pretty bad and turned off again within 2 seconds. So it's not a problem with anything that starts the car. It just won't stay running. Joy. Any ideas?

It doesn't make any noise when shaking, no thumps or squeals, no whirring, nothing. Just shakes and quits. I would say the shaking is like driving on the bumps on the side of the interstate at-speed. It's not insanely violent, but not pleasant either.

If the engine has excessive vibration, would it make it unable to run? I know the motor mounts aren't the best.. could that be causing this?

I also did some research and think it may be the crank position sensor. Anyone support this theory? It seems to be doing what a bad sensor would do.

It's only actually started once, every other time it tries to turn over but can't. But like I said, once it did it just shook bad and quit again.

 

[sniver]

Sounds like a fuel issue, see if you can pull the bov line and spray brake cleaner or starter fluid and make it run.

I think the crank sensor would throw a code if there was a dicrepency with the cam sensor. Or is the cel on.

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[abaddon_baliel]

Sounds like a fuel issue, see if you can pull the bov line and spray brake cleaner or starter fluid and make it run.

I think the crank sensor would throw a code if there was a dicrepency with the cam sensor. Or is the cel on.

Sent from my Droid

It def. smells like it's gettin fuel to the engine. No CEL, but again I wouldn't know since the car won't stay on long enough. So I have no clue, may be a CEL on. There wasn't last night, but it ran fine last night. so idk.

I got 93octane from Marathon, and their fuel has never been bad. Fuel pump is working fine, I can hear it kick on. I'll try spraying the fluid in there if I can find any. Are you saying to spray it directly in the line? Or where?

 

[sniver]

Spray it into a small vaccum line, that has vaccum at idle, right into the intake. Like the fpr nipple, or bov nipple. It might be on and pumping, but maybe theres not enough pressure, or volume.

You NEED a multimeter at the point. We can't help you properly without definate answers on the ohm outs of wires.



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[abaddon_baliel]

Spray it into a small vaccum line, that has vaccum at idle, right into the intake. Like the fpr nipple, or bov nipple. It might be on and pumping, but maybe theres not enough pressure, or volume.

You NEED a multimeter at the point. We can't help you properly without definate answers on the ohm outs of wires.



Sent from my Droid

Well I have no way of getting one. So I guess till then I'm walkin.