Will A AFPR fix my issue?

[white92talontsi]

Car is a 90 TSI.

Mods are as Follows.

Rebuilt motor has 0 miles on it.
Delta 275's/Fidanza Adjustable cam gears
Magnus SMIM
E316G(For break in)
DSM Link V2
Unknown Fuel Pump.
Stock 2g MAF

Here is my issue, Car is extremely hard to idle(feels like it wants to load up with fuel). The engine feels very sluggish and not very responsive(it does not rev very freely in neutral).
DSM link shows my CombinedFT around 5% at an idle which I am trying to idle around 1400RPM. When I give the car steady throttle in neutral it will go to around 28-30%

Car is running extremely rich. I do not know the current fuel pump in the car but based on how loud it is I am placing my bets that it is a 255.

After fouling out my 1st set of plugs tonight in various attempts to find out what the problem was I replaced the plugs and made a 1st gear pull. Car would not build any boost and I got a lot of studder on the top end due to being too rich(rich misfires). Plugs are extremely black so I know for sure it is too rich.

Do these symptoms sound like I may indeed have a 255 and it is simply over running the stock FPR and this is why it is so rich?

I did a smoke test tonight with the machine and no vacuum leaks and I did a boost leak test as well and no boost leaks.

Tonight before I left in a last ditch effort I took the sliders in the MAF comp and took them mostly all the way down to hopefully pull enough fuel to see what would happen. The engine did seem to become more responsive and it did not cut out/studder on top end so pulling fuel from the MAF Comp tables did help.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

A log tells a thousand words.

 

[white92talontsi]

A log tells a thousand words.

I know it does but there is an issue with the car so a log would be screwed up. I can tell you some things that I do remember from the log that I did save

Airflow/rev 31gm/sec
front 02 was cycling up and down as it should
LTFT LO-10%
LTFT MID-0.2%
MAF was around 35-40gm/sec at 1400rpm idle
CombinedFT-5%
Timing-1400rpm(18*)
coolant temp-176
intake air temp-76*
TPS-0
Idle SW-1
RPM-fluctuated from 860rpm to 1200rpm.


These are just some of the things that I remember off the top of my head. I just want to know if there is indeed a 255 in the tank and I have a stock FPR if it will just simply dump too much fuel and cause the issues that I am having.


The above values are with me trying to idle the car, it does not want to idle because it wants too load up with fuel.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Of course you mean .31 grams per rev right?

 

[white92talontsi]

Of course you mean .31 grams per rev right?

Yes, sorry about that. I will just have to post the log because I do not want to get my values mixed up from what I remember but I just think the car is getting waay too much fuel.

 

[simple jake]

If the fuel pump really is that loud, then it most likely is a 255. Get an AFPR quick because if you're running that rich then your rings will be messed up by the fuel. Rich mixtures kill new rings. And, you'll probably be needing an AFPR down the road anyways, so why not get one now?

 

[white92talontsi]

If the fuel pump really is that loud, then it most likely is a 255. Get an AFPR quick because if you're running that rich then your rings will be messed up by the fuel. Rich mixtures kill new rings. And, you'll probably be needing an AFPR down the road anyways, so why not get one now?

Yeah, I hope that it has not hurt the rings yet, I am just going to order the Aeromotive kit tomorrow morning, I need it anyway.

 

[turboglenn]

you need to sort ut either somethign leaking/wrong hooked up or just get the tune right. I ran a wally 255hp on the stock FPR for years, i didn't buy an adjustable one until i went to dual wallys parallel in tank adn couldn't keep pressure lower than amost 60psi at idle )

i think a lot of "over run" is hype from my experience, an AFPR is "nice" for tuning and looks, but untill you're moving massive amountsof fuel, they are certainly not "a must have"

 

[white92talontsi]

I am "thinking" that the 275's are also throwing things out of the loop.
I have verified everything that I know to be what it needs to be and have degreed the cams per manufacturers specs and timing is spot on.

 

[turboglenn]

YOu'll get a better smother idle with more vacum by advancing the exh. cam a few degreess and retarding the intake 2.5 - 3* as well, turbo cars like less overlap, different things going on than in an NA that loves overlap

 

[jrohner]

i think a lot of "over run" is hype from my experience

+1. I've ran 255hp's in a lot of DSM's with not a hint of an issue.

Tonight before I left in a last ditch effort I took the sliders in the MAF comp and took them mostly all the way down to hopefully pull enough fuel to see what would happen. The engine did seem to become more responsive and it did not cut out/studder on top end so pulling fuel from the MAF Comp tables did help.

You might just need the MAF comp lower, and maybe the injector deadtimes a little lower too. Adding ignition timing can help smooth out the idle a lot as well.

YOu'll get a better smother idle with more vacum by advancing the exh. cam a few degreess and retarding the intake 2.5 - 3* as well, turbo cars like less overlap, different things going on than in an NA that loves overlap

That definitely helped my 2g's low end when I swapped out the BC272's for big cams.

 

[white92talontsi]

+1. I've ran 255hp's in a lot of DSM's with not a hint of an issue.



You might just need the MAF comp lower, and maybe the injector deadtimes a little lower too. Adding ignition timing can help smooth out the idle a lot as well.



That definitely helped my 2g's low end when I swapped out the BC272's for big cams.

I had to lower the MAF comp scale down cosiderably, like over 50% across the board. I am gonna try another Maf as well.

Here is the latest log from tonight. This is the best I can get the car too run, still will not build boost and is sluggish. I tried the intake cam 2* advanced and the exhaust cam 2* retarded with no changes and also tried it the other way around with no changes.

posted up a log, fuel pressure is fine.

 

[jrohner]

Maybe you just need to do some tweaking to injector compensation; i think Link calls it global fuel comp or something weird.

 

[white92talontsi]

Here is what I found out today.

When I checked fuel pressure today with the car off and using Link to turn on the Fuel pump I got 42psi, which that means this may be a fuel rail off and automatic or there is something else I will mention that may be causing it. I will now need to go into link and re-do my global fuel adjustment for 42psi.

The second issue, Which "may" relate to the higher than 37 psi fuel pressure. Look at my log, the alternator is constantly charging at a 14.9v and sometimes hits 15.0v. I am running a stock alternator and a optima red top so there may be an issue with the voltage regulator. But when I checked fuel pressure the car was not running so voltage would have not been at 14+v and I either have a 255 in the tank or and automatic fuel rail.

Unknowing to me until I went back and looked at this last log is that the IAT is locked at 79* so I need to unlock the IAT and BARO.

The car runs like total Poo, fouls out plugs, has 0 power(will not pull a hair out of a nats ass) and it will not build any boost, link shows the car as running lean and needing more fuel but it is already too rich. The motor is a fresh rebuild and has maybe a tenth of a mile on it and timing is spot on.

I am running a set of Delta 275's and I have tried intake advanced 2* exhaust retarded 2* and have tried intake retarded 2* and exhaust advanced 2*.

My buddy seems to think that the cams are what is causing the issue, and I am close to pulling them and going back to stock but I hate to do all that work and it still be messed up.

There are 0 and I mean 0 vacuum/boost leaks. Running FIC 650's.
My fuel trims say lean but it is too damn rich. CTS is fine as you can see from my log as well.



These are the things I had planned to try tomorrow morning.
Another compression check even though all 4 were at 165 when I had the FP3's in it last week.
Unlock IAT/BARO
Recalculate Global for 650's and 42psi
Zero out the MAF Comp table.
Turn off the friggin anti lag.

If the car does not run better in this tune then I plan this.

Run the Fuel pump through link with the car off and put 10psi to 20 psi in the FPR and load up the fuel pump and see if the pump and regulator are working correctly.
If that does not work I will try a 609 MAF I have for a backup.
If that does not work I will put the 450's back in it and recalculate for 450's
If that does not work I will leave the 450's in it and try the stock ECU
If that does not work then I will try stock cams.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

The log you posted says LTFT lo +10% not -10% like you posted earlier. You're running lean not rich.

Maybe there's an issue with your O2 sensor, because that says lean too.

 

[white92talontsi]

The log you posted says LTFT lo +10% not -10% like you posted earlier. You're running lean not rich.

Maybe there's an issue with your O2 sensor, because that says lean too.

No I put the dash in front of the 10 to try to seperate the 10 from the reading. It has always read 10%.

This is what is getting me. link is telling me that the car is lean based on the CombinedFT and the LTFT LO but is already rich and adding more fuel just makes it load up even more.

The car burns my eyes badly after sitting for a while idling from excess fuel.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

There's too much air getting in; that's causing it to surge like that. According to the O2 sensor it's lean too.

 

[white92talontsi]

There's too much air getting in; that's causing it to surge like that. According to the O2 sensor it's lean too.

It is surging because I had to take the Idle switch out, screw the 14mm nut all the way up and put the switch back in, this in turn opened up the throttle plate enough to make the car idle at 1400 rpm. anything below that it will load up and die.
I can go no higher than a target idle of 1100rpm in link and since the plate is open trying to idle at 1400 rpm I believe that link is trying to bring it down to 1100 hence the surge. BISS screw is all the friggin way in.



I am not sure if you can see my MAF Comp table or not. I initially thought that the car was lean as well. I went into the MAF comp and am actually adding 47% more fuel at idle. I have also tried the MAF comp zero out across the board and 30% negative across the board. Car seems to still run the same no matter what.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

It is surging because I had to take the Idle switch out, screw the 14mm nut all the way up and put the switch back in, this in turn opened up the throttle plate enough to make the car idle at 1400 rpm. anything below that it will load up and die.
I can go no higher than a target idle of 1100rpm in link and since the plate is open trying to idle at 1400 rpm I believe that link is trying to bring it down to 1100 hence the surge. BISS screw is all the friggin way in.

You can't do that. You should never use the idle switch to hold the throttle open. Link is trying to run it at 1100, but since you have the throttle propped open, and the idle switch activated, the ECU just cuts fuel entirely every time it hits 1400. That's to be expected.

 

[white92talontsi]

You can't do that. You should never use the idle switch to hold the throttle open. Link is trying to run it at 1100, but since you have the throttle propped open, and the idle switch activated, the ECU just cuts fuel entirely every time it hits 1400. That's to be expected.

That is the only possible way to get the car to idle.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

No it isn't. I have 650s and 272's in my car, and it idles like stock at 800.

If you need more air at idle, you adjust the biss open, not closed.

EDIT: I meant 900.

 

[white92talontsi]

No it isn't. I have 650s and 272's in my car, and it idles like stock at 800.

If you need more air at idle, you adjust the biss open, not closed.

That is what I do not understand. The car should idle just fine if I set it at 1100 RPM. But it does not, it will just gradually load up with fuel and die.


Do I just need to go a long with what Link is saying and add more fuel or Do I need to wait to let link see the right Air temp.
1G Learn mode (all must be true)

Coolant temp >= 190F
Intake air temp < 123F
Baro >= 22.9 inHg
Baro <= 31.6 inHg

Since I have never reached 123F for IAT since it is locked at 79 could it be possible that once it "sees" 123F it will learn the fuel trims and maybe show a different reading?

No it isn't. I have 650s and 272's in my car, and it idles like stock at 800.

If you need more air at idle, you adjust the biss open, not closed.

I tried it with the BISS screwed out initially and it did not help.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Why do you have the air temp locked? The 2g maf doesn't work worth a crap that way.

Other than that, you need to set up your TPS, BISS, and idle switch precicely as it says in the ECMlink setup instructions.

EDIT: I assume you setup the TPS comp to compensate for the idle switch adjustment?

 

[white92talontsi]

Why do you have the air temp locked? The 2g maf doesn't work worth a crap that way.

Other than that, you need to set up your TPS, BISS, and idle switch precicely as it says in the ECMlink setup instructions.

This was the way it was setup from when my buddy had it in his 1g. I keep hitting the reset all button to just start from scratch but it never works.

With the IAT and the BARO both being locked(looking at my log now), yep both are locked, could this be all the cause of my issues?


Also since I found out today that my base fuel pressure is 42psi and not 37 psi it would be a good idea to recalculate my global for 650's and 42psi -35% correct?

Why do you have the air temp locked? The 2g maf doesn't work worth a crap that way.

Other than that, you need to set up your TPS, BISS, and idle switch precicely as it says in the ECMlink setup instructions.

EDIT: I assume you setup the TPS comp to compensate for the idle switch adjustment?

Yes sir I did the TPS comp but had to tweak it manually from there.

Also, thank you for the pointers. This is my 1st time using link myself.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Go to the ECU inputs tab and uncheck the "lock Intake temp and Baro" box. That will absolutely cause problems. It's for use with a MAF translator.

Undo the idle switch adjustment you did, and open the BISS a little.

You are welcome.

I'll look up the correct TPS voltage you should see at idle because I don't remember it offhand, (I think it's .61V) and that's critical as well.