Which way to go 2.0 or 2.3?

[twinkiemobile]

The idea of going 7bolt stroker is so tempting, but knowing that i don't have the same type motor as you, i guess i will go with a 6bolt stroker. that way i'll have a complete 7bolt spare motor if anyhting should happen. I guess the question is, what about machining and con rod issues. i've read that crowers are less likely to have clearance issues than eagles are. but i plan on getting a manley setup due to the sbr sale. 760 for a set or rods/pistons.

I know you guys can't tell me exactly what kind of clearance issues i will encounter, but if i am going to build a stroker, the last thing i want is for it to be clearanced improperly and then have to take out the motor again. I'll be having a machine shop clear it but i have yet to find an experienced dsm machine shop here in phoenix.

 

[Street Surgeon]

Clearance issues will be dealt with by the machine shop regardless of your piston/rod combo.

 

[jpbrazill]

Well you have a 2.4, and though somewhat similar strokers have some unique quirks that the 2.4's don't share. Sure there are infinitely more 2.0's than 2.3's and thus more 2.0's will fail but comparitively speaking you can not deny the fact that the 2.3 is more prone to pop than it's 2.0 counterparts! At any rate, good luck with whatever you choose twinkie.

I disagree. That is an opinion, not a fact.
The only differences between a 2.0 and 2.3 is machining, piston wrist pin height, and the 2.4 crank. The 2.4 requires way more attention. When I built my 2.4, there were a few things here and there that took a little time to work out, but it wasnt a big deal. (fitment issues mainly)

The main cause for failure on a stroker motor is the same main cause for failure on a 2.0: User Error...or failure to correctly assemble.

The 2.3 is not more prone to "pop" if the builder and machinest are half way smart, unless you try to rev it to the moon. They are no different other than listed above.

J.P.

 

[twinkiemobile]

Ok, so i beleive this is what i decided to go with

6 bolt 2.0 block
new 64' crank
manely rod/pistons
clevitte 77 bearings main/rod
still have to check the status of the clutch
fidanza flywheel

Now i know you guys can't give me accurate prices, but if you guys can give me ball park figure of how much it's going to take to have the block cleaned, decked, bored, honed, and have the crank clearanced in that would be awesome.

ie. i'm 20 but i get carded all the fricken time.. even by police when i walk around the neighborhood past 11 iwth my dog. so i don't want some machinist to think they can take advantage of me interms of pricing and additional "work" they might say is required.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Ok, so i beleive this is what i decided to go with

6 bolt 2.0 block
new 64' crank
manely rod/pistons
clevitte 77 bearings main/rod
still have to check the status of the clutch
fidanza flywheel

Now i know you guys can't give me accurate prices, but if you guys can give me ball park figure of how much it's going to take to have the block cleaned, decked, bored, honed, and have the crank clearanced in that would be awesome.

ie. i'm 20 but i get carded all the fricken time.. even by police when i walk around the neighborhood past 11 iwth my dog. so i don't want some machinist to think they can take advantage of me interms of pricing and additional "work" they might say is required.

For something like this, as it is a pretty custom/one off job, you'll want someone who has done it before. I'm not usually one of those to say that the 4g63 is "different" and that you need to use someone who knows the engine to work on it, as just rebuilding the stock motor is not that hard. I DO think however when attempting the stroker, that you should go with someone who has done a couple before, as they'll know what they're doing before they start.

I payed a total of about 600$ for all of those same things, with the addition of cleaning the intake manifold, head, and valve cover, very accurate balancing, flywheel machined, and "decking" the head as well. He was also a friend of a friend, so i'm not sure how much of a "deal" he cut me.

 

[Street Surgeon]

I disagree. That is an opinion, not a fact.
The only differences between a 2.0 and 2.3 is machining, piston wrist pin height, and the 2.4 crank. The 2.4 requires way more attention. When I built my 2.4, there were a few things here and there that took a little time to work out, but it wasnt a big deal. (fitment issues mainly)

The main cause for failure on a stroker motor is the same main cause for failure on a 2.0: User Error...or failure to correctly assemble.

The 2.3 is not more prone to "pop" if the builder and machinest are half way smart, unless you try to rev it to the moon. They are no different other than listed above.

J.P.

Lol, so the only differences are basically 2/3rds of the rotating assembly. That's a pretty big difference if you ask me. Some of the best in the business have had 2.3 failures and it WAS NOT because of shoddy machining! At any rate congrats on your choice twink and good luck!

 

[project_tsi]

How can you say 2/3rd of the rotating assembly is different? Its a crank and pistons is all. While the crank may be a bit on the controversial side of things, you can't say anything about the pistons being garbage. Theres not a single OEM piston you can use to make a 2.3 work. You must use wiseco or similar stroker pistons. With that said, the main part, the block is the same. The bearings are the same. The rods are the same. The main caps are the same.

So some of the best in the biz have had 2.3l failures??? Oh my f'ing god! No, not failures on a race car!?!? How many "best in the biz" do think have had 2.0l failures? Tons more.

You've also got to remember that the 4g63 stroker is still a relatively new idea still in early stages. Due to this fact, you're not going to find many strokers with 50,000 or more miles on them.

You mention a 2.0 being "MUCH" simpler and a bit cheaper than building a 2.3l. How so? The only thing extra thing needed to do while performing machine work on a 2.3l rather than a 2.0 is a few extra clearances. Clearance the main caps, clearance the block for the #3 cylinder, and clearance the oil pan if you have too which I didn't. You've got options on the oil squirters as well but those are the same options if you were building a 2.0. Those being bend out the way if wanted, replace with evo squirters, or block them off which I chose to do. As for being cheaper, maybe by a few bucks but not much. Depends if you pay someone to do your block clearancing, I did it myself. If your 2.0 spun a rod bearing you need a new crank or crank work anyways so if you already have to get one then why not spend $200 on one from KarKing? Pistons may be few buck more but not much.

I have driven big turbo 2.0's and also big turbo 2.3's. For a street car I will never purposely build another 2.0 with a big turbo. There is just so much more more satisfaction with a 2.3 on the street. Unless I'm building a drag car, I won't be building another 2.0. My next motor will be a full 2.4l 6 bolt 4g64 so I can have the extra grunt that the stroker gives but also be able to rev higher like a built 2.0.

But like I have said as well as others, a 2.3l is best for the original thread posters wants and needs.

 

[jpbrazill]

Lol, so the only differences are basically 2/3rds of the rotating assembly. That's a pretty big difference if you ask me. Some of the best in the business have had 2.3 failures and it WAS NOT because of shoddy machining! At any rate congrats on your choice twink and good luck!

An engine is an engine. There is more stroke for a 2.3. That in no way changes the durability. I will aggree that the 2.3 has seen problems, but MOST of the successfull builders have motors that last. Most of the failures in the start of the concept had trouble with wrist in height. Thats about it. Also, most of the 2.3 owners think they can wrap it to 9K with no problems. The block is the same, the rods are the same and the pistons have a different height. That in no way changes the "longevity" of the motor. And yes, 2/3rds of the rotating assembly is different....ok....as long as it is assembled correctly, there are no issues. The same thing applies to the 2.1 destroked motor. Everyone had issue to begin with, and now those issues have been worked out. Not a bid deal. And if you contact some of the first builders, they will tell you that the machine work and pin height were the biggest setbacks in the beginning. Im sure JAM will inform you that they make a great stoker...seeing is how they built it.

Twinkie, sounds like a good plan. Also, if you are thinking of going with bigger displacement, don't overlook the 2.4. It is a good option as well.

J.P.

 

[jpbrazill]

How can you say 2/3rd of the rotating assembly is different? Its a crank and pistons is all. While the crank may be a bit on the controversial side of things, you can't say anything about the pistons being garbage. Theres not a single OEM piston you can use to make a 2.3 work. You must use wiseco or similar stroker pistons. With that said, the main part, the block is the same. The bearings are the same. The rods are the same. The main caps are the same.

So some of the best in the biz have had 2.3l failures??? Oh my f'ing god! No, not failures on a race car!?!? How many "best in the biz" do think have had 2.0l failures? Tons more.

You've also got to remember that the 4g63 stroker is still a relatively new idea still in early stages. Due to this fact, you're not going to find many strokers with 50,000 or more miles on them.

You mention a 2.0 being "MUCH" simpler and a bit cheaper than building a 2.3l. How so? The only thing extra thing needed to do while performing machine work on a 2.3l rather than a 2.0 is a few extra clearances. Clearance the main caps, clearance the block for the #3 cylinder, and clearance the oil pan if you have too which I didn't. You've got options on the oil squirters as well but those are the same options if you were building a 2.0. Those being bend out the way if wanted, replace with evo squirters, or block them off which I chose to do. As for being cheaper, maybe by a few bucks but not much. Depends if you pay someone to do your block clearancing, I did it myself. If your 2.0 spun a rod bearing you need a new crank or crank work anyways so if you already have to get one then why not spend $200 on one from KarKing? Pistons may be few buck more but not much.

I have driven big turbo 2.0's and also big turbo 2.3's. For a street car I will never purposely build another 2.0 with a big turbo. There is just so much more more satisfaction with a 2.3 on the street. Unless I'm building a drag car, I won't be building another 2.0. My next motor will be a full 2.4l 6 bolt 4g64 so I can have the extra grunt that the stroker gives but also be able to rev higher like a built 2.0.

But like I have said as well as others, a 2.3l is best for the original thread posters wants and needs.

Thank you...a wiseman agrees with me

 

[twinkiemobile]

Damn, ok my friend backed out and wants to keep his 6bolt motor that i was going to use, so now i'm entertaining the thought of a 6 bolt '64 bottom end. only question is, where would i buy the pistons for them? also, if i were to buy the 162mm manley con rods for them that would be more favorable as to buying a '63 aftermarket conrod, correct?

 

[Jon Lane]

Question for the OP: Any reason not to build a 2.1L+ bored, destroked 4G64? Seems it'd hit your requirements, have excellent reliability and longevity, and spool reasonably well.

All other things being equal, my impression is that it'd also wear less/more slowly and have a nice powerband for your mountain drives. My requirements are very close to yours, and although I don't plan quite that much power, I really think a 2.1 would have qreat personality for a street engine, even though it's mostly viewed as a race engine.

 

[project_tsi]

Question for the OP: Any reason not to build a 2.1L+ bored, destroked 4G64? Seems it'd hit your requirements, have excellent reliability and longevity, and spool reasonably well.

All other things being equal, my impression is that it'd also wear less/more slowly and have a nice powerband for your mountain drives. My requirements are very close to yours, and although I don't plan quite that much power, I really think a 2.1 would have qreat personality for a street engine, even though it's mostly viewed as a race engine.

Yes but the theory behind a 2.1 de-stroker is high revving. We're talking 10k + rpm's here.
The OP doesn't need something that revs to the moon. If he's not revving that high, then a 2.1 will give him about the same results as a 2.0 and just cost more.

 

[twinkiemobile]

i think the only way i'd go for a 2.1 is with a fully built head + gt40 or something.. and more into the tranny than into the motor. i personally don't think i would even be willing to run the tach to 11k rpm out of the corner and consistently staying about 7k+ rpms around the track or mountain.

 

[Jon Lane]

Nobody said you needed to rev to 10k. With the identical crank, the 2.1 isn't that fundamentally different than the 2.0 but it does have some slightly more favorable geometry for better wear, plus the slight overbore would spool a little faster. Then rods are only a 1/4" longer, after all. I'm certainly not going to rev to 10k on the street, but I'm still convinced the 2.1L motor would have an interesting personality and could have a wide powerband.

 

[twinkiemobile]

perhaps, but i'm not going to lie this is the first time i'm building a motor all on my own. i've only helped with others, so this is my first experience.. and i want to go with what's been done more i guess. but right now i'm pretty set on stroker, it just depends on what block i can get my hands on first.

 

[project_tsi]

Nobody said you needed to rev to 10k. With the identical crank, the 2.1 isn't that fundamentally different than the 2.0 but it does have some slightly more favorable geometry for better wear, plus the slight overbore would spool a little faster. Then rods are only a 1/4" longer, after all. I'm certainly not going to rev to 10k on the street, but I'm still convinced the 2.1L motor would have an interesting personality and could have a wide powerband.

I agree to an extent with you but I don't see the point in building that kind of engine and only revving it to 7-8k knowing the whole time its 10k+ capable. Do you really think that extra .1l of displacement is going to significantly reduce spool? I don't, and I'm not so sure its got alot of extra favorable geometry vs. a 2.0. On top of that, I know I mentioned 2.3's still being in the early years, but there is even less 2.1's out there. Who knows what un god awful problems you could have with them over time. The 2.1 is still another great motor and yes, it would be comparable to the 2.0 in alot of ways. I still think what is best for him is a larger displacement engine, albeit a 2.3 or full 2.4, I don't think a 2.0 or 2.1 will offer him what he wants.

perhaps, but i'm not going to lie this is the first time i'm building a motor all on my own. i've only helped with others, so this is my first experience.. and i want to go with what's been done more i guess. but right now i'm pretty set on stroker, it just depends on what block i can get my hands on first.

If this is your first solo build I would at least have someone help out. The last thing you want to do is build another engine b/c of a stupid failure that you over looked.

I was in your boat with what engine to build also. I searched all my local junkyards within 100 miles for a full 2.4 bottom end and could not find one, and I sure as hell wasn't going to give someone $400+ for one that they themselves pulled out of the yard for $200.
Shit at first my rebuild was going to consist of a plain Jane 2.0. But after disassembly I found the crank needed work so that is when I started looking for the 2.4 bottom end. I came up short so I just used my current block and built the 2.3.

 

[twinkiemobile]

well right now i'm bidding on a block on ebay.. and really i don't know anyone in the phoenix area that can help me out. so i'm up shits creek for this one if i mess up. my plan is just to go nice and slow, and ask a lot of questions online.

on the plus side, with many pictures, many questions, and maybe even stage by stage description i can take answers from here and correspond them to a "step by step stroker build" post/tech article. although it might not be the greatest, it won't only help me out, but it may prove to be useful to a lot of folks.

we'll see how it goes, right now i'm on a bid for a 6bolt bare block on ebay. and that will just be excellent if it works out.

 

[Street Surgeon]

How can you say 2/3rd of the rotating assembly is different?

Pistons, crank, rods. The pistons and crank are different, thus 2/3rds of the rotating assembly are different.

So some of the best in the biz have had 2.3l failures??? Oh my f'ing god! No, not failures on a race car!?!? How many "best in the biz" do think have had 2.0l failures? Tons more.

Not on a "race car" but on vehicles very similar to what the OP is asking for. I'm sorry, did the OP ask for a motor that was never to be raced? No, he asked for something that would see some spirited driving (for the mountain drives and occasional track READ RACING days) If the user just wanted a non-race motor I'm sure he would have gotten a civic or something.

As it was mentioned before a lot of the issues that originally popped up have been dealt with but I wouldn't say these motors are exactly "proven" quite yet. Everyone can speculate all they want but their longevity has not been tested and there have been quite a few setbacks.

The OP wanted an opinion and I gave him mine, you can stick to yours but if you want to continue this conversation just make a different thread about it and I'll hop right in.

Good luck twink with whatever you choose or get figured out, the extra torque of the 2.3l is nice indeed and if YOU think it fits your requirements then go for it.

 

[twinkiemobile]

Hey guys, i'm on ebay bidding on a bare 2.0 JDM block. is there anything i should know about using that block that i might run into problems to? or is it just the same as a 2.0 6 bolt block?

 

[Spool'n Spyder]

I am very partial to the 2.4. My car came stock with a 2.4 and I boosted it around 90,000 miles. Now I have 130,000 and I am building a motor to go in it. I know I have have only run 12-15 psi on mine cause its stock but I have had NO problems out of it. Right now I have a e3b16g on it and it hits 12 psi around 3000. The turbo is too small so I am going to be adding a 20g when I put the new motor in. I want to to keep fast spool and bottom end like you but I did add some Crower cams to add up top. I run my car car at the track probably 10-15 times a month and rev to 6500-7000 on my 7-bolt stock bottom end.

I have a buddy with a built 2.0 with a 60-1 and HKS 272's and he has NO power till about 4000 rpm's. I hate it and want quicker spool.I am now building a 7-bolt 2.4 bottom end with weisco pistons, scat rods and Crower 64414's. I am also using a 2g head cause from the people i've talked to, they have better throttle response and better bottom end. I am not trying to steer you in either direction but I am on 4g64 group and have been for 3 1/2 years. We have people on there that had 2.4 built motors (400 fwhp) that drove them daily for 2-3 years (that I know of) and never had a problem. That is only with a 1g rod and weisco piston combo.

Thats just my .02

 

[Street Surgeon]

Hey guys, i'm on ebay bidding on a bare 2.0 JDM block. is there anything i should know about using that block that i might run into problems to? or is it just the same as a 2.0 6 bolt block?

Should be good to go as long as it's a 6-bolt, if I may ask, why bidding on a JDM block though? There are TONS of these things out in the junkyard and if you're rebuilding anyway you should be able to snag one for next to nothing!

 

[twinkiemobile]

i'm relatively new to phoenix, and with school i don't have time to scavenge the junkyards. and most of my friends/family are busy to help me pull on out. right around this point i'm thinking of giving up and just doing the 7bolt build up, i miss driving the car. hahaha

 

[damnslowtsi]

I see nobody have yet submitted an *opinion* as far as heads are concerned.. I 'll be the first then. I would go with a 2g head in your case. A little clean up of ports would be nice if you can afford it at this point. Stock is fine too. You can always add it later.

 

[nightspeed87]

I see nobody have yet submitted an *opinion* as far as heads are concerned.. I 'll be the first then. I would go with a 2g head in your case. A little clean up of ports would be nice if you can afford it at this point. Stock is fine too. You can always add it later.

Not to argue with you, this is more of a question, but why would you go with the 2g head when the 1g heads ports are bigger and has a better flowing intake mani? Since the stroker requires more air as it is per stroke, wouldnt you consider using the higher flowing 1g ports and getting those ported instead of porting 2g ports?

I wanted to build a stroker when doing my 6bolt but felt like it was pointless considering im fwd. Too much low end spool/ torque would only inhibit a crap load of wheel spin/ hop.
But if I was awd even if I did race at the track Id go stroker.
But if I had the money id do this 2.4 blocks 2.2 destroker that ive recently heard about which allows more torque and the ability to still get some high revs.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Ok guys, I'm on my way to a build up. I cant decide which one to build 2.0 or 2.3

Here are things i expect of the car:
1.) Able to decently spool and make use of an FP3065
2.) Daily driven for atleast 60-80k miles (ie long term reliability)
3.) Able to be driven on long 400+ mile commutes
4.) I'm more of a mountain/track day guy.. not a straight line kind of guy..

Along with that here are the mods i will have on the car
- FP3065 setup
- DSMLink with 3bar map sensor, maf-t, and aem wideband
- cams(depending on which motor) cam gears
- pulleys
- radiator
- mounts
- FMIC
- 1000cc injectors with walbro pump and regulator.

so basically i have the setup planned but i just don't knwo which engine will be more beneficial to what i want.

also, this car will be living 95% of it's life on pump gas. I will take it to the strip just for kicks and giggles, and tuning. i'm expecting maybe 450 + AWHP?? and maybe to break the 550 one day?

thanks for any advice you guys can give me about torque, revving higher etc.
I have searched the forums but i haven't read about people who roadrace getting these stroker motors.

thanks for helping out a newb

I think you got enough opinions, now choose one already .