Wheels: 16's vs. 17's

[jerrad]

I'm looking to pick up some new(ish) wheels and was wondering what everyones opinion was on size. I prefer the look of 17's but a nice set of 16's look almost as nice IMO.

I plan on dragging the car a little and hopefully finding some autocross events in my area. I know more sidewall will help with cutting a better 60 but the autocross is where I'm new. Will a 17 with a nice tire handle better than a 16 with the same rubber compound?

Thanks any help/opinions.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

well in reality the wide the better. 16 will accelerate faster, but a wide 17 will allow more traction to the ground

 

[cantgo2fast]

depends. 16's will have lower moment of inertia making them better for drag. If you can find some that are equal weight I say that becomes negligible. The lower the aspect ratio of the tires the better sidewall stiffness you usually get which will help in autocross. Larger diameter wheels also give you a larger contact patch which will help in both. Wider will better for both as well

 

[2GFWDbeast]

Number one on your list of things to do is to pitch the stock 6" or 6.5" wide wheels and get something that will support more rubber. The rule of thumb here is "wider is better". If you're on 16" wheels, the tire for you is the 265/45R16, but the trend is towards 17" wheels, with either the 255/40R17, or the 275/40R17.

The tradeoff here is that the 275 tire won't fit in the wheelwells. That means you have to raise the car marginally (.25" or so) higher compared to the 255 to keep the tire from contacting the fenders. What's more, there is some debate over if the increased diameter of the 275 (and the higher gearing that results) is worth the extra tread width.

 

[ShadowRS99]

Think of it as a gear ratio...
The earth is a gigantic gear...
The 16 is a smaller first gear in the sequence, faster acceleration but more rpms to get to speed, and more rotations so each portion of tire stay down for shorter times which lowers traction...
The 17 is a bigger first gear in the sequence, less rpms to get to and keep speed, and more traction because the each portion of tire contacts more, but lower acceleration and more weight...
Depends on what's you want them for...

 

[cantgo2fast]

If you're on 16" wheels, the tire for you is the 265/45R16, but the trend is towards 17" wheels, with either the 255/40R17, or the 275/40R17.

Your gonna be hard pressed to fit 265's in there much less 275's. maybe if you got absolutely the perfect offset. He is right though wider is better. I think a good compromise is finding a set of LIGHT 17's my enkeis are 5lbs lighter on every corner than my winter wheels. Youll still be able to lower the car.

However whichever rim you choose the TIRES are by far more important. Dont buy nice rims and crap tires. Do the opposite if you cant afford nice wheels. I think if you go to tirerack.com you can sort all the options by weight. and dunlop direzza star specs are AMAZING tires

 

[jerrad]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I've been looking for some evo 8's but it seems like no one will let go of their death grip on them.

 

[dsm03]

"wider is better" is a misconception.

Truth of the matter is, if anyone here is familiar with physics,,

Considering that weight is the same, More grip is actually dependent on the friction of the Tires. What you should be more concerned with is Compound.

 

[Big T-28 GSX]

"wider is better" is a misconception.

Truth of the matter is, if anyone here is familiar with physics,,

Considering that weight is the same, More grip is actually dependent on the friction of the Tires. What you should be more concerned with is Compound.

Yes I am familiar with physics, are you?

Actually, a smaller tire has a smaller contact path, the magnitude of the friction is equivalent to the coefficient of that friction multiplied by the surface area which it touches. The greater the contact path the greater the friction and grip, it is not solely dependant on the tire. So yes good tires do create more friction as do wider tires... So both good and wide tires are optimal!

 

[sledge42hammer]

"wider is better" is a misconception.

Truth of the matter is, if anyone here is familiar with physics,,

Considering that weight is the same, More grip is actually dependent on the friction of the Tires. What you should be more concerned with is Compound.

++1 The softer the better, but the faster they wear out too.

 

[dsm03]

Good for you! At least someone went to school.

 

[Big T-28 GSX]

So what your saying is that a wheel with the same weight, same compound but say 1 in. wider than another of that exact compound and weight will have the same frictional force or grip? Obviously the difference will be dependant on those variables and possibly be very small but there is a difference. If you do believe that you should ask for your money back from whatever college which taught you that.

 

[MR2BOY]

I put some 16" FD rx7 wheels on my car with some falken azenis 245 all around...wheels are light which IMO help when dragging and the tires combo helps on both track N drag...cheap wheels too

 

[cliffkemp]

it is going to be a trade off and here is why

if you get the 16s, they can be lighter and this will help in everything. lightens the car, lightens unsprung weight at the corners as well.
tires will be cheaper, in general if you need to get more sets
depending on the width of the wheel, traction can be good as well due to the suspension not working as hard to keep the tires planted to the ground.

17s.
they will be heavier in most cases depending on material.
tires will be heavier for the most part
suspension will have to work harder with the extra weight to keep the tires planted.
depending on the geometry of wheels, most of the advantage goes to the 16s.
the only real advantage the 17s have over the 16s is looks given all things equal

I had 17s on my talon but went back to 16s and stock tire size but then again, I dont race the car.

Main thing to look for is to make sure the offset of the wheels is ok with the brake system of the car and that it is very similar to what the factor intended or you may have premature bearing wear.

On that note, if you have larger brakes or want larger brakes, 17s have the advantage of housing a larger brake system for better stopping otherwise, 16s can get the job done.

16 vs 17 on traction issues in cornering will be nominal as suspension setups have more impact on handling but, to each their own. my .02 worth.

Cliff

 

[TunaTalon]

Think of it as a gear ratio...
The earth is a gigantic gear...
The 16 is a smaller first gear in the sequence, faster acceleration but more rpms to get to speed, and more rotations so each portion of tire stay down for shorter times which lowers traction...
The 17 is a bigger first gear in the sequence, less rpms to get to and keep speed, and more traction because the each portion of tire contacts more, but lower acceleration and more weight...
Depends on what's you want them for...

No. The gearing of the car is affected by the diameter of the tires, not the wheels. With larger wheels, lower profile tires with shorter sidewalls can keep the stock revolutions per mile.

So what your saying is that a wheel with the same weight, same compound but say 1 in. wider than another of that exact compound and weight will have the same frictional force or grip? Obviously the difference will be dependant on those variables and possibly be very small but there is a difference. If you do believe that you should ask for your money back from whatever college which taught you that.

His college may have taught dynamic friction where he would be right, if the tires were broken completely loose and smoking.

But here in the DSM world tires mostly work with static friction where the compound and width make a great difference. To visualize the difference think of a top fuel drag race where one car smokes the tires on the launch and loses big where the winner goes the full ¼ mile without smoking the tires. The winner was using his tires in the static friction realm and the loser was using dynamic friction to burn off some expensive rubber.

For a simplified description of static and dynamic friction see Static & Kinetic Friction

 

[bNasty]

get 16s and put some fat slicks on them

 

[cliffkemp]

17s wont get any more traction just cause they are 17s. The wheels dont determine traction.

16s with the same diameter tires on them as 17s with same diameter tires wont get any more traction as the contact patch is the same if the first tire number is the same like 205/55/16 vs 205/50/17. in this case, the diameter of the tire is 24.9 vs 25.1. traction will be about the same give the same compound tire but the 17s will be heavier given the same wheel just different size.

If you are talking traction in cornering, suspension set up is more useful than just changing tire/rim size. Lighter tire/rim combo with same suspension set up will have better traction if given the same compound of tire even if the sidewall is slighly small as in the 17s.

this is getting out of the scope of the post though. 16s are the better route due to a few issues you may have with the 17s other than just fitting on the car.

 

[ThomasGSX]

No. The gearing of the car is affected by the diameter of the tires, not the wheels. With larger wheels, lower profile tires with shorter sidewalls can keep the stock revolutions per mile.

I agree, If you get the correct size of tire for a 17 to match the diameter of the stock 16s, how could that throw off the RPMs and gear ratios???

As far as I know with the width of a tire vs. compound of a tire, shouldn't both be used in consideration? With a wider tire, you are going to make more ground contact, but if you do not have good tire compound, it's not going to make a huge difference.

After all, for that argument, look at the width of the Dodge Viper's tires, and the compound it uses, that's not just for show you know!
And if the wider the better was a true misconception, then NHRA funny cars would just use standard doughnut tires in the rear to cut down on cost...

 

[cliffkemp]

I agree, If you get the correct size of tire for a 17 to match the diameter of the stock 16s, how could that throw off the RPMs and gear ratios???

As far as I know with the width of a tire vs. compound of a tire, shouldn't both be used in consideration? With a wider tire, you are going to make more ground contact, but if you do not have good tire compound, it's not going to make a huge difference.

After all, for that argument, look at the width of the Dodge Viper's tires, and the compound it uses, that's not just for show you know!
And if the wider the better was a true misconception, then NHRA funny cars would just use standard doughnut tires in the rear to cut down on cost...

I believe that both should be used as well. my point is that if you have a 215/45/17 tire vs a 205/55/16, the 17s may or may not give you more traction based on other factors. Since both will have similar diameters, the 17s may give you a little more traction off the line if you have a fwd car as the contact patch is wider. getting 215/55/16s may give better traction in the corners and will give better in the straights as the 17s as the patch is about the same but, the 16s will have less weight than the 17s and therefore, the suspension will work better with the 16 setup with the wider tires.


this can get picky as other considerations such as tire pressure, compound, and other things come into play. Basically, you want to have the smallest, lightest rim possible and widest possible (within reason based on use of the car) to get the best traction.

this is why i stated earlier that usually it comes down to looks more than anything and that is subjective.

it is a picky topic though.

 

[ThomasGSX]

it is a picky topic though.

For Sure!

 

[SRK420a]

I had a similar question so instead of making a redundant thread I will ask here.

Which is a better choice for overall performance:

GSX 17 on 245/50 r17

2008 Eclipse 18's on 235/45/18 (on the car now)

or Summit racing 15's on 245/50 r15

 

[PanZero]

I had a similar question so instead of making a redundant thread I will ask here.

Which is a better choice for overall performance:

GSX 17 on 245/50 r17

2008 Eclipse 18's on 235/45/18 (on the car now)

or Summit racing 15's on 245/50 r15

I'm not too sure if you can fit 245/50R17 tires on Stock GSX's wheels, which are 6.5" wide. Besides, 245/50R17 tires are a lot bigger (in diameter) than the stock size, it'd make the gearing longer (racing disadvantage) and throw off the speedometer (daily driving disadvantage, though it's already off because the wheels you have are bigger than the stock ones).

I don't know about those Summit Racing wheels, but if you plan on Drag Racing, they seem to be the right choice, considering the information given (and that they fit).

 

[oneslowevo]

Id go with 17's like an evo rim and get some good rubber. The tire makes all the difference