What engine and rods are these. Which would be better to use

[eldiabloz13]

OK. So I know I've kind of fallen off the forum's, but Im back. If this is posted in the wrong area feel free to move this by any moderator. I have sent a engine out to a local shop to be completly built. A year and a half later the man still didnt even touch it. So here I am now. While the origional engine was at the shop it was there for so long my friend gave me another engine. Now that I have both back in my possession im stuck on which one to use.

Here are some pictures of both engines. I want to know if any head, block, or internals are better than one another,damaged, etc...I want to know which head would be best fit with which block to give me 450awh. As well as which set of rods to use again with which crank. If there are more details you will need to see to give proper info feel free to ask and I will get them.


These are the pictures of the first engine that was sent out but never worked on.

Head top...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00375.jpg
Head valves....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00364.jpg
Block oil side...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00371.jpg
Block side...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00372.jpg
Crank...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00373.jpg
Crank mains.. Do those grooves mean this is damaged.!!??
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00362.jpg
Pistons and rods...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00380.jpg
Piston tops...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00378.jpg

Now here are the pictures of the engine my friend gave me. He claims it came from a 95 but i counted 6 bolts on the crank. Can anyone help me on what engine this may be as well as what rods and pistons these are.

Block bottom...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00365.jpg
Block Top....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00366.jpg
Block side...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00367.jpg
Block oil side....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00370.jpg
Head valves....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00376.jpg
Head top...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00377.jpg
Pistons...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00381.jpg
Pistons and rods....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00382.jpg

Now here are two pictures that make me wounder some things. The piston on the left(first pic) and on the top(2nd pic) came from the engine that was given to me. The other one in both pics are from my origional engine. Why does one set of pistons have a mitsubishi symbol on them but the other dosen't. Also the pistons that are cleaner came out of a engine with 186k miles which was my origional engine. They have no markings on them though.They also have a smaller wrist pin center hole. As well as the rods are darker and seem to be more dirty than the other. What is the deal with them. Are they both origional.Which ones will be better to use to build on.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00383.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00385.jpg


Thank you for all the help in advance.

 

[eldiabloz13]

Can anyone please help me with this. I need this done asap because Im getting hooked up by a friend. His boss said that its fine, but if it interferes with the normal customers he is going to throw it out in the snow. It being sunday i really hope someone can tell me what kinda rods these are and what block looks better to build on as well as the other questions stated.

 

[toxicity883]

i would use the second head and block with the first pistons and rods, the second pistons are trashed

 

[delta448]

The first engine appears to be a drop in replacement/swap, -as it appears to be a seven bolt based on the freeze plugs. The second engine has been rebuilt at least once and appears to be a 6 bolt. The piston wrist pins need measured, but appear to be the same size. This means at least one set of rods is probably a mismatch for it's block -and have been machined to accept the larger 7 bolt wristpin. The second set of pistons have been kissing some exhaust valves. I belive both sets of pistons appear to be 7 bolt pistons. You really need measurements to tell for sure on all of this though. I am purely speculating.

 

[eldiabloz13]

The first engine appears to be a drop in replacement/swap, -as it appears to be a seven bolt based on the freeze plugs.

Your right I took a look under the engine and didnt see any oil squirter's or passages to even put any. What gets me is it had this crank.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00413.jpg

The second engine has been rebuilt at least once and appears to be a 6 bolt.

Also correct THANK YOU. I noticed these had oil squirters. What gets me is this crank (also 6 bolt holes) has this dowl coming out of it but the other dosent.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00415.jpg

The piston wrist pins need measured, but appear to be the same size. This means at least one set of rods is probably a mismatch for it's block -and have been machined to accept the larger 7 bolt wristpin.

So does this mean i have to use 7 bolt pistons from now on as well as wrist pins?

Also as a update i was cleaning the heads and noticed I have a 2g head and a 1g head. What gets me is that the 1g head was on the 7 bolt block. And the 2g head was on the 1g block. Random luck things are like this but non the less. What blocks would be better to use for 450 awhp? Also since the 2g head was on the 1g block dosent that mean the head bolts are 12mm now? And that i cant use a 1g head again cause of that?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00412.jpg

 

[delta448]

Your right I took a look under the engine and didnt see any oil squirter's or passages to even put any. What gets me is it had this crank.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00413.jpg

Possibly a 6 bolt non-turbo 4G63, although every 6 bolt 4G63 I've seen always has had 4 freeze plugs on the front with the middle 2 located slightly lower than the other 2. I can't identify this block with any certainty.

So does this mean i have to use 7 bolt pistons from now on as well as wrist pins?

No. But the rods you use must have the correct small end for whichever piston pin diameter you use. The 7 bolt rods accomodate the larger 22mm diameter wrist pin as opposed to the 21mm wrist pin used in 6 bolts. Stock 6 bolt rods are beefier than 7 bolt rods and since they both use a pressed-in wrist pin, a budget upgrade is machining out 6 bolt rods to accept the 7 bolt wrist pin.

Also as a update i was cleaning the heads and noticed I have a 2g head and a 1g head. What gets me is that the 1g head was on the 7 bolt block.

We aren't sure that you have a 7 bolt block yet; ...after all it did contain a 6 bolt crank.

Also since the 2g head was on the 1g block dosent that mean the head bolts are 12mm now? And that i cant use a 1g head again cause of that?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/eldiabloz13/DSC00412.jpg

The difference in head bolt size was between 6 bolt (12mm) and 7 bolt (11mm), not between 1G and 2G engines. If you have a 2G head on a 6 bolt block, that head has already had the holes drilled oversize because it will not fit the larger studs/bolts without machining. You can always use a 1G head, but if it's indeed going on a 2G block you'll have to either use a 93-94 7 bolt head or drill and tap the block to accept the larger 6 bolt studs.

 

[eldiabloz13]

Rumor on the streets was that my car was a 400awhp beast. I heard from a kid that he knew my car very well. He said that it had a 57 trim with all supporting mods. Could he have rebuilt the engine and put it in. Than before selling it taken all the good stuff out. After i heard that people take the oil squirters out because they are "more stuff that that will break". And that high horsepower engines dont have oil squirters.

Delta...I think im going to use that 6 bolt block that my friend gave me for my build. Im going to use the 1g head that came on my origional engine as well because i dont want to mess with the CAS wiring. I want this to go to the machine shop and come back and be able to drop in as hassel free as possible.
Both engines had the 1g big rods though right?So it wont matter what ones i bring the machine shop.

Now also im going to revert back to the 1g pistons. Since the rods had to have been machined to fit the 2g pistons, can i just throw reg 1g pistons on with no problems?Or would the fact there a mm bigger be that much of a difference.

The difference in head bolt size was between 6 bolt (12mm) and 7 bolt (11mm), not between 1G and 2G engines. If you have a 2G head on a 6 bolt block, that head has already had the holes drilled oversize because it will not fit the larger studs/bolts without machining. You can always use a 1G head, but if it's indeed going on a 2G block you'll have to either use a 93-94 7 bolt head or drill and tap the block to accept the larger 6 bolt studs

........I dont get that. Thats a smaller mm going to a bigger hole. Why would it be machined to be EVEN bigger ya know.

 

[delta448]

After i heard that people take the oil squirters out because they are "more stuff that that will break". And that high horsepower engines dont have oil squirters.

I've never heard of anyone purposely removing any 1G oil squirters, they work well to keep the pistons cool. The 95+ 7 bolts however had a much more inferior squirter design, and I have heard of those being pulled and the holes welded over. Magnus Motorsports - Crankwalk Tech

Both engines had the 1g big rods though right?So it wont matter what ones i bring the machine shop.

That's my guess, but I suggest double checking. You should at least measure the pin diameter, that will at least tell you which aftermarket or replacement pistons you can use with those rods. I wouldn't install a piston that I didn't know exactly what it was and what CR it would cause.

Now also im going to revert back to the 1g pistons. Since the rods had to have been machined to fit the 2g pistons, can i just throw reg 1g pistons on with no problems?Or would the fact there a mm bigger be that much of a difference.

You'd have to use 1G pistons from a 93-94 year that have the larger 7 bolt wristpin. And yes, 1mm is a crapload when you're talking about engine internals.

........I dont get that. Thats a smaller mm going to a bigger hole. Why would it be machined to be EVEN bigger ya know.

You've got it backwards. A 6 bolt block requires a larger bolt that is 12mm, the stock 7 bolt heads have a smaller hole to accommodate the smaller 11mm bolt that threads into their 7 bolt block. A 12mm stud sticking out of the block deck isn't able to pass through an 11mm hole in the head.

 

[eldiabloz13]

Wow thank you man. You one hell of a help. Ill check all that stuff today and get back to you if i have any questions. But so far thats all i really got.You really are a awesome help thank you again.

 

[eldiabloz13]

Ok so this damn wrist pin won't come out. I have a feeling that our's is one of the types that are hard pressed in. I have never came across this kind in a car so far. Any insight? If it is a hard pressed wrist pin how am i going to get it out with out a ton or so press.