Video of My 4G63 Making Expensive Sounds

[Bluesideup]

OK I took this video tonight. The engine is a '95 4G63T swapped into a Mirage. When the engine was in the donor car it made the whining noise you hear but I thought it was the timing belt idler and tensioner pulleys. I replaced those when the engine was out and ran it without the accessories to make sure there was no noise.

Now the noise is back and definitely not coming from the belts. The new sound is the rattle present just above idle. The rattle only comes at 900 rpm and is gone by 1000 rpm. It's hard to tell where the noises are coming from but it seems they are coming from the back of the head or block.

Any ideas on either noise?

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[evood69]

I wish you the best of luck with that noise, something I have never heard before.

 

[HecticVR4]

well im no expert at this, but sounds to me like metal rubbing on metal, maybe flywheel/clutch, or maybe ## cam shafts or i doubt it but mybe a bearing. Once again im no pro.

 

[93ETGOCART]

reminds me of when my cousin accidentally put a washer inbetween his carb and intake. another option might be bearings in something. but those are wild guesses. good luck with it all hopefully its something simple

 

[webconnect]

Check your oil pump. You will have to slip off your timing belt so you can rotate it by hand. I had a VERY similar sound. My oil pump stubby shaft was very loose, causing a whine with the oil pump.

 

[Bluesideup]

Thanks for the ideas so far. The high pitched noise was present before the swap, the donor had an automatic trans. I suppose it may be possible that the flywheel bolts have come loose or something. Maybe I'll pull the inspection cover and see if I can move the flywheel at all.

edit:

Webconnect. When I had the engine out I rotated the pump by hand and didn't notice anything weird. What should I be looking for?

 

[webconnect]

When I rotated my pump it felt VERY grainy when rotating, and was very obvious that something was loose. You can easily hear a rattle when rotating the gear by hand. It sucks to have to redo timing just to check but its a step you have to consider. When I installed my engine it was fine. It only came loose after 600 miles of driving.

 

[Bluesideup]

OK well it's better than having the pump come loose. Any tips on fixing the problem if that turns out to be the issue. Did you just install a BSE at that time?

 

[webconnect]

I just had a BSE done. What happened was the stubby shaft which replaces the silent shaft was not lock titghted to the bolt. I ending up starving all my bearings and replacing the motor.

 

[ed_dogg23]

Well I would say the sqeeking noise almost sounds like the balancer is coming apart. Good luck.

 

[chadnum1]

take off the cam cover and try it. Sounds like its warped from heat and rubbing your timing belt

 

[Bluesideup]

Would pulling the pan be the easiest way to check the condition of the balance shaft?

From reading the VFAQ it appears the rear balance shaft is driven by one of the oil pump gears.

You're saying the bolt that attaches the balance shaft to the gear might be coming loose or possibly a bearing on the rear shaft is bad?

Chad- Thank you for the suggestion. I did put my hand on the timing cover and it's not rubbing but I'll take it off tomorrow to eliminate that as an issue. I removed the oil cap as well to see if the noise was louder but there was no change.

 

[gearhead37683]

sounds like it could possibly be a balance shaft bearing, keep us posted

 

[Diamondrev]

Check your Water pump..

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Like most everyone else, I think it sounds like something on the timing side of the engine.
Just so I'm clear, it made no noise WITHOUT the accessories, but once you put it all back together it did this?

 

[joe sobo]

i would first take off the alt. belt and try it, if it still does it, take off the water pump and a/c belt and try it but don't let it rund long, you may be able to go through and do the process of elimination on it. i tend to think its either the alt, ps pump, a/c or water pump

 

[Bluesideup]

Yeah I ran the engine without any accessory belts at all to see if it still made the noise and it does. At first I thought it was the A/C compressor but the noise was still there after I removed it. Then I pulled everything off to replace the timing belt and pulleys. The noise disappeared for a little while and now it's back with a vengence.

If the balance shaft bearings are bad I assume I should see shavings in the pan. I am going to pull the pan to take a look once I get some time. Right now my guess is the rear bearing on the rear balance shaft. Do they regularly go bad on 4G63s?

Being that this is a '95 7 bolt motor it would be nice to just swap in a new bottom end but I'd like to get some more miles out of this one for a while. The motor was a little neglected when I got it.

 

[webconnect]

Yes, your oil will be milky. It will have very very small shavings. Do not run your motor any more.

Drain your oil and check it. It will tell you a lot

 

[inthecease]

thats one crazy sound. good luck though.

 

[tvscream]

sounds like cicadas before you start revving.

 

[Ibbanez]

Definately Drain the oil and even cut open the filter toi check inside and see whats going on inside your engine. Couldnt hurt.

 

[kasper618]

Sounds like your camgear is rubbing on a 6mm (10mm head'ed) bolt for the cam sensor. Had it happen, made the EXACT same noise....

 

[dragon2144]

I would just rebuild the motor sounds like there is more then just one thing wrong when you went from right to left there where different sounds but that is bad sounding sounds like there are some bad lifters maybe the balance shaft bearing or something i would just pull it and rebuild.

 

[kasper618]

I would just rebuild the motor sounds like there is more then just one thing wrong when you went from right to left there where different sounds but that is bad sounding sounds like there are some bad lifters maybe the balance shaft bearing or something i would just pull it and rebuild.

Not really a wise choice, that's a very expensive suggestion for a shot in the dark. That sound is most likely coming from something external. Could be a loose timing belt tensioner rubbing on the waterpump, waterpump impeller chewing itself through it's housing, camgear rubbing on that bolt, flywheel rubbing on inspection plate, a bolt could have possibly fallen down inside the lower cover and it could be rubbing on something moving as well.... Tear down the lower timing belt cover, turn the motor by hand, and check for rubbing, and binding.

 

[Bluesideup]

I finally had a chance to dig into the car. While draining the oil I looked for copper or aluminum (apparently the BS bearings are aluminum) shavings. Nothing showed in the oil as it drained or in the oil catch pan.

I pulled the oil pan off and again it was clean. Next I checked for side play on the rod bearings as well as the mains. None of the bearings had more than 1/64 of play.

Looking at the balance shafts they appear to have some bluing around the bearing journals. Is this normal from the machining of the shaft? Both the front and rear shaft have this bluing. I checked for side to side play on the balance shafts and they are tight.

Rear Shaft

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Front Shaft

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I did find that the support bolt for the downpipe was missing which could have caused the rattling noise. The whining however was present when the engine was in the other car.

Should I pull the valve cover and see if one of the cam bearings is bad? The noise seems to come from the back of the block. What would be your next step?

Thanks for any advice.