1G Valve seals or guides?

[enriquez2000]

6 bolt head 112k miles had blue smoke only on start up. To me that says valve seals.. was the case on my 7 bolt too.

Machine shop says its probably the guides and putting seals in will mask it for a while.

I know you cant be sure without checking them one by one but looking for opinion

 

[GPLaserRS]

If you are comfortable pulling the valve cover and cams, I say do it yourself and replace the valve seals, I had 2 leaky seals on the exhaust side giving me blue smoke on start up too. It's much cheaper to replace seals for $30 then to have to have your head pulled and dissembled to have guides replaced. I'm sure a Mod or Wiseman can shed more light on this. BTW, my issue was solved by just replacing the seals, plus the money I saved doing it myself I used to buy cams and springs to swap in while I was in there To perform the job I bought this, and it was worth every penny!!

 

[enriquez2000]

If you are comfortable pulling the valve cover and cams, I say do it yourself and replace the valve seals, I had 2 leaky seals on the exhaust side giving me blue smoke on start up too. It's much cheaper to replace seals for $30 then to have to have your head pulled and dissembled to have guides replaced. I'm sure a Mod or Wiseman can shed more light on this. BTW, my issue was solved by just replacing the seals, plus the money I saved doing it myself I used to buy cams and springs to swap in while I was in there

Already pulled the head and cams... so ya 25 vs 400 if i have a shop press in guides is a no brainer. But they swear ill be pulling it again in a few months.

I did my 7bolt seals and cured my problem on that motor. Just want to put this 6bolt together and not worry about anything for some time to come

 

[GPLaserRS]

In my experience guides only need to be replaced on high mileage motors, you're doing a full build and want the security, or you bent a valve. Hell, if you already have the head off the car pulling the seals and inspecting them won't take you any time at all and it will be obvious it's a seal or the guide.

 

[enriquez2000]

In my experience guides only need to be replaced on high mileage motors, you're doing a full build and want the security, or you bent a valve. Hell, if you already have the head off the car pulling the seals and inspecting them won't take you any time at all and it will be obvious it's a seal or the guide.

Ya just building for security. Eagle rods and some 9;1 pistons going in. Replacing my 160k 7bolt before im forces to.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

If the guides are REALLY wore then the seals will last a month or so before you are back to smoking. My son did his seals, and the guides were wore enough to wiggle the valves and that is how long his lasted. If they are wore like that then go ahead and have guides put in. My shop charged me $100 to do the guides (I had already purchased them) and was well worth it. Think about a wiggly valve moving up and down rapidly. If they wiggle to long, they can snap the head off of the valve and you will have a big "smiley face" hole in a piston. Just be aware of this.

 

[enriquez2000]

If the guides are REALLY wore then the seals will last a month or so before you are back to smoking. My son did his seals, and the guides were wore enough to wiggle the valves and that is how long his lasted. If they are wore like that then go ahead and have guides put in. My shop charged me $100 to do the guides (I had already purchased them) and was well worth it. Think about a wiggly valve moving up and down rapidly. If they wiggle to long, they can snap the head off of the valve and you will have a big "smiley face" hole in a piston. Just be aware of this.

Ya that sounds like a shitty time ...

 

[GPLaserRS]

The mantra every time I start doing something on my DSM or any of my other cars is "well, while I'm in there" or "may as well since it's already apart", but leads to more spending inevitably... , but so worth it too!

 

[enriquez2000]

The mantra every time I start doing something on my DSM or any of my other cars is "well, while I'm in there" or "may as well since it's already apart", but leads to more spending inevitably... , but so worth it too!

Thats why this 6bolt is in pieces all over ny shop right now.. hell i even painted all the brackets so everything goes together pretty and perfect... while im there is an understatement... you should see what i did in my hondas bay

 

[IQ685]

Plus with worn guides, you'll be sacrificing valve-seat sealing. You'll also see accelerated valve-wear because instead of the entire valve closing at once and centered(as its supposed to) one side or the other with close first and then as the rest of the valve closes(not centered) the valve will move back to center and you'll have spring tension on a metal to metal movement at high temps. Guide wear is not something to be taken lightly.

Edit- I work on prototype cylinder heads on a daily basis for a heavy duty engine company. Valve wear is something that most new projects fight, so I've seen a lot of causes, and one of them is guide wear.

 

[enriquez2000]

Plus with worn guides, you'll be sacrificing valve-seat sealing. You'll also see accelerated valve-wear because instead of the entire valve closing at once and centered(as its supposed to) one side or the other with close first and then as the rest of the valve closes(not centered) the valve will move back to center and you'll have spring tension on a metal to metal movement at high temps. Guide wear is not something to be taken lightly.

How many miles would guide wear "typically" be an issue?

 

[IQ685]

There's a lot of factors beside just run time. I can't really give you a mileage number, but I will give you a way to test without getting a bunch of expensive measuring equipment. I call it the wiggle test, pull the springs off, pull the valve out about 1/2"-1"(just enough to where you can get a firm grip on the head of the valve) and move it up and down(not in and out like normal valve motion caused by the cam) then side to side. A little motion is normal, but anything more than like 1/16" in either direction and you're going to want to replace that guide.

 

[enriquez2000]

There's a lot of factors beside just run time. I can't really give you a mileage number, but I will give you a way to test without getting a bunch of expensive measuring equipment. I call it the wiggle test, pull the springs off, pull the valve out about 1/2"-1"(just enough to where you can get a firm grip on the head of the valve) and move it up and down(not in and out like normal valve motion caused by the cam) then side to side. A little motion is normal, but anything more than like 1/16" in either direction and you're going to want to replace that guide.

Easy enough.. now to go rent a spring compressor and check em all. Are there any "super" valve seals for these cars or all basically same viton stuff?

 

[GPLaserRS]

Order this (plus you can buy the valve deals directly from them too) - http://www.euroexportinc.com/mitsubishi-4g63-valve-spring-compressor
I bought this tool to do my valve springs and it's amazing, super easy to use too!

 

[enriquez2000]

Order this (plus you can buy the valve deals directly from them too) - http://www.euroexportinc.com/mitsubishi-4g63-valve-spring-compressor
I bought this tool to do my valve springs and it's amazing, super easy to use too!

Cant i just remt a spring compressor from autozone

 

[IQ685]

The one that they have will be very difficult to use on our heads. They're usually generic lever spring compressors, to be used on springs that protrude from the top of the head, but ours are recessed inside the head.

 

[JS4G63]

Order this (plus you can buy the valve deals directly from them too) - http://www.euroexportinc.com/mitsubishi-4g63-valve-spring-compressor
I bought this tool to do my valve springs and it's amazing, super easy to use too!

Beautiful, wish I would have known about that sooner!

Cant i just remt a spring compressor from autozone

They suck, and are often worn out or damaged. Same thing with rental suspension coil compressors, you're taking a risk by using one. $75 for the good valve compressor tool is well worth it. Even if you only use it once, you could sell it here after you're done. I would buy a used one as long as it was in proper condition.

 

[enriquez2000]

I would buy a used one as long as it was in proper condition.

Go halvsies and ill send it to you when im done

 

[JS4G63]

Hell.. we're both in Colorado, why not? PM me.