ECUflash Upgrading injectors today latency values

[Sjd6795]

Going to be swapping from my 450cc to 680cc injectors today and I am curious on the latency values. Do I just add to my current values the recommended amount for the 680cc?

 

[delta448]

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/98-99-ecu-tuning-problems.399187/

Post #6 Ceddy himself gives the exact values you should use for PTE 680s.

 

[Sjd6795]

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/98-99-ecu-tuning-problems.399187/

Post #6 Ceddy himself gives the exact values you should use for PTE 680s.

Mine are Delphi 680cc which seem to be rated at 680cc compared to the 640cc from the PTE. I will use the same latency it should get me in the ball park and I can adjust from there.

Also my car has been sitting over night should I have any concerns with fuel pressure? Or do I still need to disconnect fuel pump and try to start the car to relieve any pressure?

Thanks!

 

[Sjd6795]

So just got my delphi 680cc installed no leaks or anything I set injector scaling to 680 which rounded it down to 675 in ecuflash, I then used the + 0.300 values in post #6 on that thread to get a baseline latency. Car starts up and idles fine it bounces between 13.3 and 14.7 for a few seconds then stabilizes around 14.7-15 for the rest of the idle. I can feel a slight hesitation at idle when I press the gas for literally 0.1 seconds so no big deal. Cruising seems to be a little rich so I am going to adjust the latency a bit more maybe a .210 instead of the .300 and see how that plays out then I will go into MAF smoothing and hopefully get it dialed in.

 

[stillrunning]

By all means make changes to get an understanding of what it does and the effects but it's not something you'll want to change once you start dialing in your MAF, it will just throw everything off
Its something you won't need to mess with again
You'll be dialing in your MAF to get the correct open loop fueling and getting your closed loop fuel trims in a normal range

 

[steve]

Agreed, if your fueling baseline is off everything else you do as "tuning" will be tainted by it.

 

[Sjd6795]

I hate that I am a noob at tuning . I just went out for some WOT pulls and my AFR are perfect to what my afrmap is asking for however as soon as I get on the gas there is a little hesitation/stutter almost like the fuel is cutting up for a second then the car takes off. I changed my deadtime to what ceddy recommends for the delphi 680cc, could the deadtime settings need adjusted more to get rid of the hestitation/stutter? My low LTFT at idle was 1.9-2.1%, I haven't cruised long enough to get any mid LTFT readings yet.

 

[delta448]

Try increasing the values in the Async Accel Multiplier vs TPS Delta table.

Watch the wideband gauge on throttle tip-in, or review a log where you make a single sharp stab into the throttle and hold it wide open for at least a few seconds. If the AFR goes lean you need more tip-in enrichment; aim for 12.5:1 AFR or slightly richer between 2500-4000 rpm. Asynchronous Multiplier means a percentage of pulsewidth added to each injection event and TPS Delta is how fast you're depressing the go pedal.

 

[Sjd6795]

Try increasing the values in the Async Accel Multiplier vs TPS Delta table.

Watch the wideband gauge on throttle tip-in, or review a log where you make a single sharp stab into the throttle and hold it wide open for at least a few seconds. If the AFR goes lean you need more tip-in enrichment; aim for 12.5:1 AFR or slightly richer between 2500-4000 rpm. Asynchronous Multiplier means a percentage of pulsewidth added to each injection event and TPS Delta is how fast you're depressing the go pedal.

I will give this a try and see what happens thanks. Question on adjusting the table is there anywhere in the log to monitor to know which area to change? Or do I just increase/decrease the entire table by 1% or so until things look better?

Oh I almost forgot I noticed this plug wasn't connected to anything during my injector install is this just a test plug that the manufacturer used?

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[delta448]

I'd start with 5% and see how rich it goes, if still lean try 10%, if too rich back off 2.5%... etc.

I'd do the whole table at first, then try moderating the speed of the tip-in while logging to see if it makes a difference.

It's important to note that this table acts directly on pulsewidth, so when you have bigger injectors a few percent makes a bigger difference in fuel delivered. Since you are using injectors that are roughly 150% of the stockers, I'd imagine the final numbers to be about 1/3 more than the factory values.

 

[stillrunning]

Personally I'd would be graphing with your WBO2 & AFRMap scaled the same along with MAF hz
When the hesitation happens you should be able to notice it in the graph right away
Note the MAFhz the hesitation, probably lean, is happening and add airflow with MAF smoothing at that point
I would work on getting the MAF calibrated to the best of your ability before tweaking too many other things
Cruising is easy to adjust and WOT is easy to adjust
The transient area in the middle of the MAF curve where you usually start coming into boost and MAF hz rises quickly, it will take a bit more time to get it spot on since it's a relatively quick passing moment but getting it correct means your WBO2 will track AFRMap with a great deal of accuracy
When you get the curve right you will see that your WBO2 swings very nice, cleanly & accurately to the AFRMap setting
From the moment your got WOT, if you're graphing WBO2 over AFRMap, you should see your WBO2 track the AFRMap very well

EDIT: Here is a screen shot of a quick pull to give you an idea of what your WB02 and AFRMap should be track, its from an older post I made, easier for me to find the old post than the actual SS picture I made
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/small-16g-with-evo-8-fuel-pump.521224/#post-153712344

 

[Sjd6795]

Personally I'd would be graphing with your WBO2 & AFRMap scaled the same along with MAF hz
When the hesitation happens you should be able to notice it in the graph right away
Note the MAFhz the hesitation, probably lean, is happening and add airflow with MAF smoothing at that point
I would work on getting the MAF calibrated to the best of your ability before tweaking too many other things
Cruising is easy to adjust and WOT is easy to adjust
The transient area in the middle of the MAF curve where you usually start coming into boost and MAF hz rises quickly, it will take a bit more time to get it spot on since it's a relatively quick passing moment but getting it correct means your WBO2 will track AFRMap with a great deal of accuracy
When you get the curve right you will see that your WBO2 swings very nice, cleanly & accurately to the AFRMap setting
From the moment your got WOT, if you're graphing WBO2 over AFRMap, you should see your WBO2 track the AFRMap very well

EDIT: Here is a screen shot of a quick pull to give you an idea of what your WB02 and AFRMap should be track, its from an older post I made, easier for me to find the old post than the actual SS picture I made
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/small-16g-with-evo-8-fuel-pump.521224/#post-153712344

Ok so my next step is to get the wideband connected to the ECU so I can start logging it instead of trying to watch both the gauge and the map at the same time. And calibrating the maf what do you mean by that? Shouldn't my maf already be calibrated? It's just the stock 2g maf.

 

[stillrunning]

In a nutshell no it's not going to be calibrated, if it was that simple nobody would be tuning anything running a stock MAF, plug in injector data and call it a day done but it's not that simple

It'll run sure with the correct injector data only but odds are the fueling is going to be off

To get the proper fueling the ecu needs to know the injector size and have a relatively accurate estimation of airflow in the cylinder

You calibrate the MAF so that when the ecu commands say 11.1 AFR the actual measured/deliver AFR results in 11.1 AFR or any other AFR commanded by the ecu

Calibrating ensures the ecu is getting the proper data to make as accurate a calculation for fueling as possible

Entering the injector data is more or less part of the base setup, the MAF will needed to be dialed in

 

[Sjd6795]

In a nutshell no it's not going to be calibrated, if it was that simple nobody would be tuning anything running a stock MAF, plug in injector data and call it a day done but it's not that simple

It'll run sure with the correct injector data only but odds are the fueling is going to be off

To get the proper fueling the ecu needs to know the injector size and have a relatively accurate estimation of airflow in the cylinder

You calibrate the MAF so that when the ecu commands say 11.1 AFR the actual measured/deliver AFR results in 11.1 AFR or any other AFR commanded by the ecu

Calibrating ensures the ecu is getting the proper data to make as accurate a calculation for fueling as possible

Entering the injector data is more or less part of the base setup, the MAF will needed to be dialed in

I wish I lived in Florida I'd pay you to help me. You sound like you have a lot of knowledge with this. I can confirm that during the hesitation where things get choppy for a few seconds my AFR does go lean one point it showed --- and another time it went to 16.6 but it's only for a brief second then everything is fine. I took three logs and going to look over them in a bit.