Upgrading from to4b V-Trim to EVO III?

[krummel21]

I currently have a TO4B V-Trim and I installed a water injection kit and just finished tuning. Now for some reason I can't make any real power on this thing and am thinking about selling and getting a new turbo. According to DSMLink I'm only making 285 at the CRANK. Thats with it tuned to 11 A/F and no knock but if I change anything I will get knock. This thing also doesn't hit full boost till 4500 RPM's.

Do you guys think it would be worth selling and buying a EVO III? From what I've read I have more than enough to push the thing pretty hard and I would be expected to see alot higher numbers. I would like 300 at the wheels or a little more, I don't really want more than that though. What do you guys think?

 

[halik008]

hah and u actually put ## trust in the HP estimator eh?.......

 

[autronicDSM]

Sell it and get a real turbo.

 

[krummel21]

I did a dyno and the thing was pretty close. Is it usually not close? By going to the Evo III 16g and with the mods I have wouldn't I be looking at a lot better numbers if DSMLink is somewhat close? Is there another turbo I should look at or is the best for those kind of numbers. Also to achieve 300-350 AWHP on pump gas, is there anything else I'll need?

 

[autronicDSM]

I did 300+ at the wheels on 22 psi on a big 16G. My mods are pretty much front mount, exhaust, fuel injectors and walbro pump. To get more power from my setup I plan on doing cams, head, intake manifold and 65mm throttle body. That should make 350 or more. If you want something simple and fun to drive get a evo 16G and cams.

 

[halik008]

I did a dyno and the thing was pretty close. Is it usually not close? By going to the Evo III 16g and with the mods I have wouldn't I be looking at a lot better numbers if DSMLink is somewhat close? Is there another turbo I should look at or is the best for those kind of numbers. Also to achieve 300-350 AWHP on pump gas, is there anything else I'll need?

my buddies DSMlink said 195hp w/ 11:1 AFP on ported/clippsed big 16g, 550's, fmic, 2.5" pipes, full 3" exhaust, tial, suspension, etc......

 

[krummel21]

what is your whp, and are you sure he had all the settings correct for how you car was set-up?

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Go compare 70-90 times to those who actually ran the car over on the DSMLink forums. That's the easiest way of comparing power in setups on the Internet.

My car's weight is pretty accurate, as well as tire size, and I tune on a flat road, and DSMLink puts me at over 400awhp, and based on my 70-90 times, I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[krummel21]

Well my 60-90 was right 5 sec. With my modifications and goals would you guys recommend another turbo? I mean the only things I could see myself adding would be intake and exhaust manifolds and cams. I wouldn't touch anything else.

 

[halik008]

what is your whp, and are you sure he had all the settings correct for how you car was set-up?

haven't bothered to log the HP yet.... still messing around w/ the EBC...start boost, gain, etc...

yes he had all the correct settings wheel size, profile, etc-wise

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Post a log.

 

[krummel21]

Here's my log from my best tune with the turbo. I was wondering wouldn't it be cosidered a down grade going with the EVO III or by that log do you think I ocould get a lot more from going witht hat turbo or do yu guys have and suggestions for me on maybe another turbo. I just want something that is spooled before 3800 RPM's and can run a good amount of h with my mods. Any Ideas?

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Forgot to post the log

 

[krummel21]

Here's the log sorry.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Ouch. I think there's definitely power missing somewhere.

Why so low on timing? Why so rich up top? You're making the airflow for ~300 at the wheels. I'd bump timing up, starting with 1* each time (across the board, richening up a click where it knocked at) and see what happens. Your setup has more in it.

Also, just out of curiosity, have you checked the compression on the motor recently?

Take care,

Jesse

EDIT : Just noticed the wideband, so disregard my AF ratio comment.

EDIT 2 : Coolant temps could be a bit cooler as well. What are you running for fluids, fans, etc?

 

[krummel21]

I actually have never checked the compression on the motor. The timing is what has gotten me a lot too. My timing before I instlled the injection kit was at -6. Just after the install could I turn up the timing to where it is. If I add anymore timing any where I get knock. It's just 92 octane here and the temps are obviously about 90 degrees. I'm not for sure what coolent is in there I think it's just O'reilly's brand and I don't have water wetter or anything and I'm running stock fans.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

A few things to try:

1. Change the coolant and add some water wetter just to ensure its good. I don't think your temps are what is hurting you, but hey, this is cheap.

2. Also, what happens when you turn the boost up any more?

I'm kinda stumped, your log looks pretty good, I mean, no knock, temps arent to high, your IDCs are good. Idk....

 

[krummel21]

Well I have turned the boost up and I actaully didn't gain any hp. It ened up being about the same numbers because I had to tak eout a little timing. I had the boost all the way up to 25 adn then it would fall to about 20. I thought it would be bettter to put it at 19 and have a little more timing.

What about my compression could that be my problem? What are some things that you lose with compression?

 

[TSIMonsteR]

could be, with loss of compression there is definately a loss in power. Only way to know for sure is to do a compression test.

What is your A/F up top? Right before you let off the Throttle? The Link graph has you right at 10:1 (9.88:1 to be exact), but what does your wideband say?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Here's the log sorry.

First off, there's a nice little add-on with dsmlink called "clip to start" it gets rid of the minute of useless logging prior to the pull. It's under display.

2nd, Your timing PEAKS at 11.2 at 6500 rpms with no knock whatsoever. Raise it. You're only flowing 35 lbs/min, that timing needs to be at ~20. That's probably going to net you a gain of about ~50 whp.

3rdly, A/F is crap. Get that to 11.5-12.0 for more power.

 

[krummel21]

Alright I was tuning for 11 but since I have water alcky injection I thought I should lean it out but since I wasn't sure I just wanted a safe tune. Sorry you have to add the wideband to the display and it'll show you what I had dsmlink is logging it. I'll add some timing there it's just that it seems if I add timing I get knock but I was only adding it in the mid rpms. I bought a compression tester so I will have those results tomarrow and I'll do a little more tuning. Then post another log.

Thanks,
Krummel21

 

[krummel21]

Haven't gotten to the compression test yet. I should have that done around 7. Here is teh log though with the changes you had talked about, A/f is right at around 11.5 or leaner. I couldn't quit get to 12 because I would get knock. I also added as much to the timing sliders as I could which ended up being quit a bit but during the run it din't ever clear 13 degrees.

 

[daren_p]

I wouldn't go by the the HP estimator in DSMlink, what more important is the amount of air you are flowing. Can't check your logs at the moment so what is your lb/min at what boost level?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

I wouldn't go by the the HP estimator in DSMlink, what more important is the amount of air you are flowing. Can't check your logs at the moment so what is your lb/min at what boost level?

the HP tool isn't there for you to rely on for an actual measurement of horsepower, rather a tool to see if you're doing the right thing in your tuning and increasing that number as all it is is a measurement of your rate of acceleration (increase of RPM over time). It's reliable when used that way.

 

[daren_p]

the HP tool isn't there for you to rely on for an actual measurement of horsepower, rather a tool to see if you're doing the right thing in your tuning and increasing that number as all it is, is a measurement of your rate of acceleration (increase of RPM over time). It's reliable when used that way.

Yes I know, that was exactly my point . According to Thomas (from DSMLink) while the actual hp/torque readings may not be accurate for you car (some do seem to be fairly close though & its best to test in 2nd gear) the repeatability between runs is pretty dame good (of course make sure to be using the same stretch of road in the same type of conditions). So in this way you can see gains/loses.