Uhm ...?? Oil in coolant, like alot.

[mitsukid02]

Pics! I wont be able to check the filter tonight its getting dark.fast. I was also informed the head was not re torqued after break in..

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Headgasket appears oily

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Top of IM, could be headgasket or valve?

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Left side rear of head and block below I'M

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Oil filter mount

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Right side head block

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Right side rear head block below IM

the only think i can think of is that a coolant jacket wall has busted.. i could be wrong but thats what it looks like to me...is there any collant in your oil at all?

if it was a busted coolant jacket wouldnt this mean that my oil would be milky with antifreeze mix? there is no color other than oil on the dipstick, and, if a coolant jacket was busted i belive the "oil level" would be higher than normal because of the coolant leaking into the oil, in fact my oil is lower than normal, alot lower but normal color and consistancy

i was watching my coolant while the car was started and getting to full temp (cap off), i noticed that not circulating, there was some oil spots in the coolant foaming up, but no bubbles. then when the coolant started to begin to circulate the coolant was completly green as could be everything looked normal. gave it some gas, no bubbles like a typ head gasket gone bad, no oil color. then it stopped circulating and it started to collect black oil again, weird idk?

 

[RedGST98]

Pics! I wont be able to check the filter tonight its getting dark.fast. I was also informed the head was not re torqued after break in..

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Headgasket appears oily

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Top of IM, could be headgasket or valve?

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Left side rear of head and block below I'M

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Oil filter mount

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Right side head block

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Right side rear head block below IM



if it was a busted coolant jacket wouldnt this mean that my oil would be milky with antifreeze mix? there is no color other than oil on the dipstick, and, if a coolant jacket was busted i belive the "oil level" would be higher than normal because of the coolant leaking into the oil, in fact my oil is lower than normal, alot lower but normal color and consistancy

i was watching my coolant while the car was started and getting to full temp (cap off), i noticed that not circulating, there was some oil spots in the coolant foaming up, but no bubbles. then when the coolant started to begin to circulate the coolant was completly green as could be everything looked normal. gave it some gas, no bubbles like a typ head gasket gone bad, no oil color. then it stopped circulating and it started to collect black oil again, weird idk?

i agree... i made taht statement before you had stated there was no coolant in the oil.. just oil in the coolant..

 

[mitsukid02]

oh ok gotcha, so i guess when i have time ill check the oil cooler, and then if i cant find anything there, ill pull the head off and inspect i guess thats all i can do. What about those head gasket test kits?

 

[ramsack]

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I see a blatant problem in that picture, and it's that the one valve cover bolt is not tightened all the way down. I'd assume all of them are like that. The oil all over everything in the outside is most likely a leaking valve cover gasket. Do yourself a favor and get washers for each bolt and an in-lb torque wrench, and just spend the time torquing those bolts over and over until they all click the wrench right away.

 

[mitsukid02]

I see a blatant problem in that picture, and it's that the one valve cover bolt is not tightened all the way down. I'd assume all of them are like that. The oil all over everything in the outside is most likely a leaking valve cover gasket. Do yourself a favor and get washers for each bolt and an in-lb torque wrench, and just spend the time torquing those bolts over and over until they all click the wrench right away.

Your right, wow. i never even took the time to look those over. Ill do that. Ill look into the manual to see what tq spec those are, ill pull the valve cover and re tourque the head studs, and replace the valve cover gasket, then ill take break cleaner and clean everything down wash it all off and see if the oil returns. so your thinking the leaky valve cover could be the culprit for the oil everywhere, and may not be the gasket being bad?

 

[ramsack]

Correct. A head gasket leaking oil would not shoot it up and all over the top of your intake manifold and injectors. The spec is 24-36 ins.-lb., so a fts.-lb. torque wrench is not going to give you an accurate reading at 2-3 fts.-lb.

 

[mitsukid02]

Correct. A head gasket leaking oil would not shoot it up and all over the top of your intake manifold and injectors. The spec is 24-36 ins.-lb., so a fts.-lb. torque wrench is not going to give you an accurate reading at 2-3 fts.-lb.

That makes me feel better, ill look over and tighten the valve cover down to spec and also clean up everything. and ill inspect the oil cooler when i have time, as i think there is a good chance it could be i cranked the filter too much and ruined a seal or something

-*update* three of the valve cover screws are stripped, ill need to either re-tap or use a time sert.

-*update* talking to the person i bought the car off of, and i was informed that the oil cooler was not re installed on the 6-bolt swap. the 6 bolt swap is a 1990 1g head, and a 1990 oil filter housing, that explains why the 97 filter wouldnt fit but that rules out the possibility of oil entering the coolant system through the oil cooler correct? is there any other way oil can enter the cooling system? my turbo is oil cooled only.

-*update* could not having the head torqued again after initial breakin cause oil to enter the coolant but not vice versa?

-People were also telling me intake gasket? how is this?

 

[mitsukid02]

Also, have others blown a metal gasket? That just seems hard to do

 

[ramsack]

I've seen a metal gasket blow almost right away, and with no abuse. The surface is EVERYTHING. And I don't get why people bother with copper spray. The surface should be smoothed correctly, and copper spray isn't going to do jack shit at correcting any errors made in that area. You still should not have a problem running any year filter on any year housing. The threads are the same, and so is the diameter of the gasket. I ran a 2g filter on my 1g just because I didn't care for how huge and clunky the 1g filter is.

 

[Calan]

Also, have others blown a metal gasket? That just seems hard to do

Do you mean a metal head gasket?

All the time.

 

[mitsukid02]

Damn, alright I guess ill just have to pull the head

 

[mitsukid02]

With a mls head gasket, you guys using any silicone on the gasket or just bare gasket?

 

[ramsack]

You don't need to, and I think it's a complete waste and totally improper to do. The smoothness of the finish on the block and head is what seals. Any added silicone or copper spray is just going to get squeezed out, into the oil and coolant passages, and into the cylinders. It's quite goofy. If there is a flaw in the finish, no sealant is going to be as reliable (and it's not going to be a fix-it) as a correct finish. You also need to make sure the block's surface is smooth and flat enough to run a MLS gasket. This is often overlooked and people usually just care about the head. It doesn't take much effort to simply just check the block in the car.

 

[mitsukid02]

The block and head were decked according to the cometic mls head gasket

 

[ramsack]

Did you try re-torquing yet?

 

[Calan]

With a mls head gasket, you guys using any silicone on the gasket or just bare gasket?

In addition to what ramsack said, most quality MLS head gaskets come pre-coated. These coatings are actually pretty high-tech, and adding anything to them could lower their effectiveness.

I've sprayed a very thin coating of copper spray on "cheap" MLS HGs in the past, but never saw any difference in performance. The Felpro PT MLS I'm currently running is installed dry.

 

[Calan]

Have you done a leak-down and/or coolant pressure test yet?

 

[ramsack]

I read the Cometic gaskets come with a very thin layer of Viton. I think it's black. Some people say they had it, some others didn't. No coating is necessary. I think they do it to seal the layers and keep out grit and dirt from getting between the layers.

 

[mitsukid02]

Did you try re-torquing yet?

I just did at lunch, not sure if the machine shop used moly lube or not so I torqued them to 100 ft lbs just incase, 5 of them turned from 75 and the rest didn't budge at 100 ft lbs, do you think it could have just needed to be re torqued? 5 of the bolts did move from 75 to 100

 

[ramsack]

It's the easiest thing and the free thing to do at this point. Next would be a leak-down test, like Calan suggested.

 

[mitsukid02]

Calan, I have not done a leakdown yet, though I do have the tool, I have never done it before because never had this prob or ever blew a head gasket, but I am very mechanical, could you explain how to do the procedure?

 

[Calan]

Calan, I have not done a leakdown yet...could you explain how to do the procedure?

I already have.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html

 

[mitsukid02]

Thanks!

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I see a blatant problem in that picture, and it's that the one valve cover bolt is not tightened all the way down. I'd assume all of them are like that. The oil all over everything in the outside is most likely a leaking valve cover gasket. Do yourself a favor and get washers for each bolt and an in-lb torque wrench, and just spend the time torquing those bolts over and over until they all click the wrench right away.

how manh inch/pounds do you think for torquing the valve cover bolts? i had this problem after replacing a new valve cover gasket a while ago. didnt wanna break bolts
nevermind just read the top of this page.

That makes me feel better, ill look over and tighten the valve cover down to spec and also clean up everything. and ill inspect the oil cooler when i have time, as i think there is a good chance it could be i cranked the filter too much and ruined a seal or something

-*update* three of the valve cover screws are stripped, ill need to either re-tap or use a time sert.

-*update* talking to the person i bought the car off of, and i was informed that the oil cooler was not re installed on the 6-bolt swap. the 6 bolt swap is a 1990 1g head, and a 1990 oil filter housing, that explains why the 97 filter wouldnt fit but that rules out the possibility of oil entering the coolant system through the oil cooler correct? is there any other way oil can enter the cooling system? my turbo is oil cooled only.

-*update* could not having the head torqued again after initial breakin cause oil to enter the coolant but not vice versa?

-People were also telling me intake gasket? how is this?

the filter doesnt matter. 1g 2g they are compadible, the thread size is exactally the same. the only difference is that the 1g oil filters are alot bigger in diamiter then the 2g ones.. 1g oil filters are actually supposed to be better then the 2g ones due to their size so i hear. everytime i get an oil filter for my 99 i ask for a filter for a 92

 

[mitsukid02]

Yeah I have a 1g oil filter housing on the block but I got a 2g filter that explains why it was so much smaller