Typical Starter Issue?

[tsunari]

Roughly 2-3 years ago, I replaced the starter in my '97 GST with a BOSCH starter because the factory one was not fully retracting the starter gear upon startup and made a nice grinding sound with the flywheel . . .

Fast-forward to present -- Sometimes when I try and start the car, all I get from the starter is an audible 'click'. Nothing more. To start the car, I must put her in gear and either roll forwards or backwards just a bit, put her back in neutral . . . then everything starts right up.

Is this because perhaps something in the motor is binding? (Brand new motor . . . less than 1k miles) Or perhaps something to do with the 9:1 compression ratio?

Or am I just paranoid and I have a dying starter . . .

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

I would speculate that it's not the compression ratio. You are definitely binding. This is proven by the putting in gear and rocking back and forward. If this had done it on more than one starter I would really look at the flywheel since you said nothing about replacing it after the grinding episode. Good Luck

 

[spyder97gs]

I'm more or less leaning towards a discharged battery. When mine was "clicking" I just charged the battery and it would turn over. I theorized the flywheel, and test by rotating the crank, but it never worked.

Also, if your still grinding, I've got a good tech article on here.

 

[92GSXBaltimore]

im pretty sure it is a "dead spot" on the starter windings. Next time it happens, take a rubber mallet, and smack the starter. If it starts, then you can be sure it is your starter.

 

[92GSXBaltimore]

O, before I forget....clean your battery posts and wire clamps.....it could be a bad connection too.

 

[PaulN]

It sounds to me like a flywheel issue. I have an 89 Ranger that would always do that until I replaced the engine. The starter and all was reused on the new engine and I have never had anymore trouble like that with it again. That was 3 years ago.

 

[tsunari]

Hmmm . . . interesting ideas. Next time it happens, I'll be sure to try some of them out. As for whether it may be a flywheel, etc . . . here's the setup:

Forged 6-bolt w/ 1k miles
Built Shep FWD Race Tranny
ACT 2100
XACT Streetlite flywheel w/ ~7k miles on it
Starter has . . . uhhh 2-3 years of use
Optima RedTop Battery (Clean posts)

Compustar CM3000 (Alarm w/ remote start)

I've noticed that it happens more often when I try and remote start the car than by just jumping in and cranking it with the key . . . however it DOES do it with both (either key or remote start).

The idea of a weak/dead spot on the starter windings sounds plausible . . . perhaps when I'm at the top of a compression stroke and also on that dead-spot . . . it just doesn't have the umph to roll the motor over.

I checked the batt voltage sitting still and came up with ~12.5V, but will try and check it while cranking next time it gets stuck. Thanks for the ideas thus far and keep em comin!

 

[tsunari]

It sounds to me like a flywheel issue. I have an 89 Ranger that would always do that until I replaced the engine. The starter and all was reused on the new engine and I have never had anymore trouble like that with it again. That was 3 years ago.

What would be wrong with the flywheel to cause this?

 

[PaulN]

Well you said you had a starter previously that wouldn't release and grinded. It could mess up teeth on the flywheel and causing it to bind once in a while do to a poor mesh between the starter gear and the flywheel. I didn't know you had replaced the flywheel recently.

 

[tsunari]

Well you said you had a starter previously that wouldn't release and grinded. It could mess up teeth on the flywheel and causing it to bind once in a while do to a poor mesh between the starter gear and the flywheel. I didn't know you had replaced the flywheel recently.

Ah! yes . . .quite right . . . no, this is a brand new motor from the ground up. Only thing really transfered from the old setup is the starter, alternator, battery . . . TB- that's about it

 

[tsunari]

Well I finally got around to trying a new starter . . . first few starts everything was beautiful- but this morning I tried to start her up with the remote and . . . nadda -- got the same clicking as before. So I'm guessing the probability that the new rebuilt starter would be bad is rather small . . . so my original one should be good.

ideas?

battery is a good Red-Top with clean posts. Guess next step is cable ends or even replace the cables themselves? WTF

 

[spyder97gs]

You should replace the cables as a counter measure. Make sure all contacts are clean. How new is that optima?

 

[tsunari]

You should replace the cables as a counter measure. Make sure all contacts are clean. How new is that optima?

Year, maybe two . . . any ideas where to get some good cable & ends? The ones pre-made from the dealership are like 80-100 bux

 

[spyder97gs]

I would really start thinking about the possibility of it being the battery...

As for the cables, any good auto parts stores should carry a big selection of them. Just grab the ones that look like the ones you have now.

 

[tsunari]

I would really start thinking about the possibility of it being the battery...

As for the cables, any good auto parts stores should carry a big selection of them. Just grab the ones that look like the ones you have now.

But why would it be the battery if

1) It is seemingly random
2) The battery holds a good charge
3) It does it more often with the remote start than with the key. However, if it happens with the key, repeated cycles of Start-on-start-on-start-on will eventually get the thing to kick over. And when it does, it turns over @ normal speed . . . not real slow like the battery is dying . . .

 

[spyder97gs]

Well I've had the clicking before after I went AT>MT and it always was a low battery, and the I would get clicking, it just wouldnt fire over.

It's really hard to tell. Could be the starter solenoid. Problems like these make you hate dsms

 

[tsunari]

Well I've had the clicking before after I went AT>MT and it always was a low battery, and the I would get clicking, it just wouldnt fire over.

It's really hard to tell. Could be the starter solenoid. Problems like these make you hate dsms

Yeah, I thought it was the starter solenoid . . . which i why I tried a new rebuilt starter . . .but obviously that didn't work :-( I just hate throwing money @ a problem until it goes away about as much as I hate problems that fix themselves before I can ever find out what was wrong. So guess it's cable-time . . . Any recommended gauge?

 

[tsunari]

Ok, checked out this troubleshooting guide:

http://www.boschusa.com/images/startingsystems.pdf

And best I can tell- everything is fine.

Battery Voltage :: 12.5x
Voltage drop across the cables is MAX .019mV

Everything seems clean and tight . . . to my knowledge our starters dont need to be 'shimmed'. It's a brand new XACT Flywheel . . . happens more often with my remote start than with the key and when it DOES happen with the key, I can cycle it START-ON-START several times and it'll turn over.

Any way I can find out if the motor is binding?!

-frustrated

 

[tsunari]

New starter cables went in tonight . . . and didn't do a damned bit of good.

So I took off the dust shield on the bellhousing to get a look @ the bendix gear while starting and sure enough- it is extending out when power is applied, but it is banging into the flywheel and not meshing with it so W-T-F?

it's an XACT Flywheel
new rebuilt starter
new OEM starter cables (waste of freaking money)

checked the teeth on the flywheel and there dont seem to be any missing/mangled.

Please tell me I'm not going to have to take my baby to Satan and actually pay them to figure this one out . . .

 

[tsunari]

Arite . . . maybe this is related. Was driving around today, came to a stop and she stalled (GT30R + 3" intake = messed up airflow readings on decel . . .), so I go to start her up again and NOTHING!! No click, no nothing. Turn the key off, try again- nothing. So I cycle from ON-START-ON a couple of times and finally everything started up as normal.

Here's a quick run-down of the system.

Optima Red Top (Full Charge)
New Starter Cable Harness
New Bosch reman starter
Clutch switch disabled (unhooked)

Anything I could be missing? Perhaps the ignition cylinder is going out? (any way to test it?)
Dunno if these two issues are related or not, but I've actually had this problem a couple of times in the past, but thought nothing of it.