Twin turbo? [Merged 11-6]

[1990EclipseGSX]

Why don't you just strap an 8" exhaust on your single turbo...? Or how bout no exhaust for unlimited airflow?

Good luck with this.... I'm sure Shep's record will be in jeapordy when you are finished.

Good luck spooling a GT3076R before 8,000 RPM with half the exhaust pulses.

 

[Reese92tsi]

Why don't you just strap an 8" exhaust on your single turbo...? Or how bout no exhaust for unlimited airflow?

Good luck with this.... I'm sure Shep's record will be in jeapordy when you are finished.

Good luck spooling a GT3076R before 8,000 RPM with half the exhaust pulses.

I guess an 8" exhaust w/ a single turbo could be an option but it would be kind of difficult to route an exhaust that big and you can't get around the fact that in most cases two turbine housings would probably outflow one. I'm not trying to break any records just want to try something different thats all. I'm pretty sure that with proper runner length, diameter, heat insulation, careful fuel tuning, antilag, a somewhat reasonable boost threshold could be achieved w/ two 50lb/min wheels. How do you think Brent Rau is able to spool that monster 81mm without nitrous?

You guys are right, this is probably a stupid idea and theres a good chance that I'm not gonna go through with it, just wanted to see if I could get valuable info from some of the members who are more knowledgeable about turbo dynamics than I am. Sorry if I wasted your time guys .

 

[goalieman24]

You guys are right, this is probably a stupid idea and theres a good chance that I'm not gonna go through with it, just wanted to see if I could get valuable info from some of the members who are more knowledgeable about turbo dynamics than I am. Sorry if I wasted your time guys .

If it was an easy mod to do, or practical in any way... don't you think you would see people running a setup like this?

 

[timloomis]

Brent Rau has some serious mods that he cant discuss,since he can loose a race if people knows what he has.Lots of things can spool a big turbo,like high compression pistons,big cams,stroker engines,etc...

 

[4BangR-x]

Nitrous, propane....

 

[TSIMonsteR]

It seems like it would make more since to use a smaller turbo to spool up the bigger one. Like have a small turbo for great low end and spool, and then a huge turbo for the top end and hig hp. If I were going with a TT setup, it'd be something like that

 

[chicagoavenger]

man this topic comes up at least a few times a year. It's always the same guy that has huge plans for his car. Go look up his profile in a few years that's if he's still even around and the project is scrapped or still running 14's. Crawl before you walk, walk before you run you get the point.

 

[mavisky]

Read Corky's book with a grain of salt. Alot of what he talks about applies to v-6 and v-8 engines, but not 4 cylinders as much.

 

[ColonelOdem]

I have seen this too many times. actually a few of my friends have come up to me with this. I always tell them the same thing. you only need one turbo per exhaust manifold/hedder. the time in fabricating something like this or a supercharger that helps spool a turbo that can't build power itself is kind of out of the question I would get 272 cams before considering 1 turbo for 2 exhaust ports X2. I have an evoIII 16GT that pushes 18 PSI like nothing on stock cams. (BR St. 3 block St. 3 head)

 

[spatulahunter1]

http://www.forcedairtech.com/turbokits_wrx_stage4.html

that company has done it on a wrx four cylinder and they are gonna be selling a twin turbo kit for the wrx platform. They are making a kit with twin turbos and twin turbos and a supercharger. Its an expensive kit but everything bolts on. I wouldnt ever get something like this for myself unless it was a show car but i would rather see someone buy a dsm and spend 7 or 8 grand on it that way instead of wasting that much money on chrome 19s, 6 ft high spoilers, 13 color paint jobs, and 17 tvs mounted in every inch of free space.

I agree that it is the polar opposite of the easiest way to go fast but i think it would be an extremely cool setup for a performance/show vehicle or if someone wanted to just showcase their fabrication skills.

Nonetheless, the original poster wasnt a dick to anyone he just had some questions that arose after he read a book by someone who is fairly respected when it comes to forced induction so instead of everyone being super sarcastic and posting as many dead horses as they can why cant the naysayers just be polite and tell him why they dont think it would work very well (im not referring to the one guy that actually gave links of where he could read more about it, im more referring to the ones that just laughed and posted horse cartoons.)

 

[drivemusicnow]

First of all, everyone who didn't reply with a technical answer... come on, the original poster brought the tech, the least you can do if you're going to make fun of him is bring some technical facts as to why it will or will not work.



Here is why nobody does a twin turbo on a DSM:

Cost
Complexity
room.


I will go out on a limb and say that in THEORY, the twin turbo on a 4 cylinder would be more efficient. The problems that you would run into is thermal efficiency (twice as many pipes before the turbo means more surface area to let heat out, not a big deal, but still detrimental)

Here is the kicker though. How much extra performance would you get out of twin turbos, versus a properly sized single? it is worth double the cost? With DSMs, you can almost always find a turbo that will do exactly what you want it to, so the extra cost of messing with all of the extras for 2 turbos just isn't neccesary.


oh, and to those of you knocking twin 14bs... check out how the 3000gt guys do with them.

 

[delta448]

so instead of everyone being super sarcastic and posting as many dead horses as they can why cant the naysayers just be polite and tell him why they dont think it would work very well (im not referring to the one guy that actually gave links of where he could read more about it, im more referring to the ones that just laughed and posted horse cartoons.)

You're absolutely right. I honestly apologize.

Almost all of the reasons I scoffed have already been expressed, but here are my thoughts:

1) that there would be a lot more money involved in twins
2) that a larger single can do the exact same thing when properly selected
3) fabrication of one-off parts could turn into a real b*tch
4) there's pretty limited space to cram all that crap between everything
5) engine temps would likely be moderately higher
6) surging between the turbos would occur if one cylinder dropped compression pressure a bit and the opposite turbo pushed air reverse-style toward the limping compressor's outlet
7) twins are almost always on a 6 or 8, or at least if its a 4 its not on a convenient inline cylinder configuration
8) increased efficency is not guaranteed, the overall efficency would be very dependant on the effeciency of the design of the turbos used, the intercooler, the exhaust pipes, etc.
9) the design of the turbos would have to be exactly what you needed, or your spool-up takes you almost into your redline, -unless of course you convert your 4G63 into a two stroke
10) not to be redundant, but the cost should count double for the redundancy of doubles

...can I go beat the horse again now? ...come on, it's fun! ...please?

 

[UofACATS]

Just an off topic post on some nice fab work on a twin-turbo miata

http://www.shoremotorsports.com/pics/timsmiata/turbover4/icpipe1.jpg

http://www.shoremotorsports.com/pics/timsmiata/turbover4/mockassy4.jpg

Personally I don't think a twin turbo 4G63 is a waste of time, if the reasons for doing it are to show how cool you are..

Tomorrow, a new thread pops up: Completed TT 4G63. How many views would it get?

The dead horse guys would look first, just like they looked here.

Have a good one.

 

[DGajre777]

Personally I don't think a twin turbo 4G63 is a waste of time, if the reasons for doing it are to show how cool you are..

Tomorrow, a new thread pops up: Completed TT 4G63. How many views would it get?

The dead horse guys would look first, just like they looked here.

When a twin turbo DSM goes faster than a 50 trim in a 1/4 mile, I'll look into it.

 

[delta448]

Tomorrow, a new thread pops up: Completed TT 4G63. How many views would it get?

The dead horse guys would look first, just like they looked here.

You can bet your sweet a$$ I would.

I'd still be laughing though.

I'm done here. Every new post to this thread is another whack to the horse's bum.

 

[Defiant]

What the hell, a twin turbo thread, and no blood?

Closed.

Refer to any of the other closed twin-turbo threads. The losses far exceed any dreams of gain.

 

[oldman]

Rofl

 

[szewczyd]

Pics of it:
http://thompsoneclipseperformance.com/pictures.shtml

Info on it:
http://thompsoneclipseperformance.com/

Also make sure to check out the pricing on it!!

 

[MSRmechanic]

That looks so shitty haha

 

[drivemusicnow]

No on ever said it couldnt' be done (well... no one who knew what they were talking about) Everyone said that it would be a waste of time, effort, and money.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

....and it's done with exactly the quality I was expecting.

 

[project_tsi]

Wow thats retarted. Not only does it have a stock 1g maf in drawthrough, but a gm maf in blowthrough!!!!

Remind me never to buy from them or have them work on anything I own.

 

[98eclipseRS]

it was done a long long time ago(think back to the days of the digest) and it was done with quality work. This horrible looking....crap, for lack of better words, is the sorries excuse for a car I have ever seen. Exhaust pipe from one turbo to the other hanging on the radiator hose?? welds rusted to shit the most hacked looking POS I have ever seen. Honestly I am ashamed to own a dsm at this point in time.

 

[98eclipseRS]

Oh shit just realize its from a shop. W T F!!! seriously W T F! My brain ####ing hurts from looking at those pics. There is so much wrong its unbeleivable.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I didn't see the pricing but by the looks of it he started it and that's about it.

On the "tech info" page he ripped this straight from VFAQ or somewhere with no credit unless we the first to wirte it

Weight savings that wont kill you:
Remove the padding under the carpet.
Remove the tar-like sound deadener on the floor.
Remove the heat shields above exhaust and/or drive shaft.
Remove front lap and shoulder belts and replace with 4 or 5 point harness.
Remove spare tire and all accessories.
Remove rear seats and seat belts.
Remove all unnecessary hardware from hatch area.
Remove power steering system.
Remove a/c system. (if you want).
Remove all of the carpet. Front and rear.
Remove hood latch and cable and use hood pins.
Remove all inner plastic wheel wells.
Remove factory fog lamps
Convert stock steel wheels to an aluminum alloy.
Convert rear hatch and rear quarter windows to a light weight polymer.
Convert stock radiator to an aluminum radiator. (also allows better cooling).
Convert gas tank to fuel cell.


Weight savings that might kill you:
Cut the front bumper so that the mounting brackets for the bumper cover are left.
Remove the rear steel bumper.