Twin turbo? [Merged 11-6]

[GreddyGst]

I prefer Vineet's way to run twin turbos in a DSM. One engine per turbo.
http://custom.autos.yahoo.com/gallery/overview/index.html?carid=2432
http://www.affordatech.net/twin

Steve

wow.

 

[mavisky]

Doug Derby built a twin turbo 4G63 using two t-25's years ago. It was in a Plymouth Laser, I believe.

Dead on the money. That pic is of Doug's car. Doug ran Doug's Dynopower otherwise known as DDP.

 

[1fast97gsx]

looks like a pretty pointless setup.

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

Actually, if you can weld and do it yourself, this would be possibly a good low budget option. Because there are lots of t25's layin around.

Not sure if it's really that efficient or powerful. Seems like it would be tough to run the IC piping but maybe not.

Interesting and not at all common.

 

[rjdavis21]

i think it would be sweet to have on like your DD dsm just to day yeh its twin turbo or possibly the sound.

 

[Stapl3]

doug derby's. supposedly it worked out really good.

 

[DSMJim]

Wow what a halochaust.. Please take it away.. My EYES!!

 

[weith1111]

I prefer Vineet's way to run twin turbos in a DSM. One engine per turbo.
http://custom.autos.yahoo.com/gallery/overview/index.html?carid=2432
http://www.affordatech.net/twin

Steve

Hehe. I forgot all about Vineet's project. I was over at his place when all he had was an empty shell in his garage, like 5 years ago! He said something about 2 motors and I was like yeah uh-huh, let's go log a run on my car.

Kinda tied to the OP, does anyone keep stock twin turbo setups? Do the stealth/3000gt guys ditch them for one turbo? Supras and Rx7's usually toss them. I guess there aren't too many twin setups anymore, though, unless it's a v8 or v10, so it would seem the designers learned their lesson...

 

[robs90tsi]

Hehe. I forgot all about Vineet's project. I was over at his place when all he had was an empty shell in his garage, like 5 years ago! He said something about 2 motors and I was like yeah uh-huh, let's go log a run on my car.

Kinda tied to the OP, does anyone keep stock twin turbo setups? Do the stealth/3000gt guys ditch them for one turbo? Supras and Rx7's usually toss them. I guess there aren't too many twin setups anymore, though, unless it's a v8 or v10, so it would seem the designers learned their lesson...

There is a Bugatti ( I think thats what it is) that has a V-16 with quad-turbo, like 1000 something HP.

 

[danyz250f]

For a twin turbo setup to be useful dont you want like a t-25 hooked up normaly then it spools a huge turbo like a t4 or 25g or somthing big. (I dont know many turbo brands and specs.)

I talked to a mechanic 2 days ago and he talked about a guy in Idaho falls that has a twin turbo talon, and his friend with a cummons turbo dodge raced him and beat him. I was like what ever there isnt a twin turbo talon in idaho falls and I have raced Damion in his dodge and I beat him. But it was only a 2 hundred foot drag and I am AWD.

I hate hear say.

 

[Thomas91169]

For a twin turbo setup to be useful dont you want like a t-25 hooked up normaly then it spools a huge turbo like a t4 or 25g or somthing big. (I dont know many turbo brands and specs.)

ooooooor

you could have one turbo thats BB that spools just a little later than a t25, but still pulls 30psi to redline.

theres a reason the fastest supras are now single turbo.

 

[harryb]

Derby did this back in '99/2000, which is a damn long time ago technology wise for these cars. Honestly for the time he built it and availability it is a great feat, tell me if they had Burn's Collectors for manifolds back then, probably not. More along the lines of being able to say that he did it.

 

[danyz250f]

ooooooor

you could have one turbo thats BB that spools just a little later than a t25, but still pulls 30psi to redline.

theres a reason the fastest supras are now single turbo.

Thats what I thought. It is useless to twin turbo stuff unless you do like a twincharge setup. Useless to twin turbo a 4 banger.

The t-25 gets spooled at a low rpm then spools a much larger turbo that flows alot more air.

 

[Chaddycakes21]

ooooooor

you could have one turbo thats BB that spools just a little later than a t25, but still pulls 30psi to redline.

theres a reason the fastest supras are now single turbo.

Agreed

 

[Danks]

hahaha this has got to be the funniest thing i have ever seen i seriously wanna meet this kid and roll up to his new stealth and just laugh my ass off... the greatest thing is he lives in jersey and so do i and im gonna try one day

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992...0000024414QQcategoryZ6214QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

sorry for posting this but i thought someone could get another laugh out of it

 

[somdturbo]

he corrected himself at the bottom of the page. "single turbo not twin"

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Thats pretty funny but even though he did correct himself at the bottom of the page, it sounds like he thinks that there are twin turboed models out there, haha, and by the way try posting this in the hangout community area...well not sure if you can as of late because they changed a lot of stuff during the recent down time but before they noob's could post in there so you still maybe able to.

 

[Reese92tsi]

I've just read Maximum boost by Corky Bell and even though he doesn't go into excruciating detail about turbo dynamics (sucks) he brought up some interesting points. From reading the book it seems that a twin turbo setup may be slightly more efficient than a single turbo, ie two T04e 50 trims instead of 1 GT42. Each of these setups would flow about 100lb/min. Corky states that a twin turbo layout would inherently offer a superior manifold design but didn't go into much detail. A twin turbo layout would require the use of two wastegates, this would yield rock solid boost control at lower boost levels and overall would produce higher exhaust flow. A big advantage to this system is greater turbine discharge area, you have two tailpipes instead of one. Two 3" exhaust pipes will yield greater exhaust flow over one 3.5" or 4" pipe, (hell, I'd make both the tail pipes 4" ) this would probably make more top end power and could possibly increase spool up. Heat is divided between two turbine housings lowering the operating temperature thus improving the life expectancy of the turbos. Any other thoughts on this system and how to implement it into the already cramped up DSM engine bay

 

[DGajre777]

Did you do a search? This has been discussed before:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110396
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194039
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181218

And on the link here, post # 2 http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132669

"Seriously, Read the Book Maximum Boost: by Corkey Bell. That will explain why (Through mathematical calculation) WHY twins won't work on a 4 cyl 2.0 engine. especially twin 14b's.

The optimum exhaust gas pulse configuration on a 4 stroke engine is four cylinders per turbine."

Two 3" exhaust pipes will yield greater exhaust flow over one 3.5" or 4" pipe, (hell, I'd make both the tail pipes 4" ) this would probably make more top end power and could possibly increase spool up.

How many 10 or 9 second DSMs do you see with two exhaust pipes??

 

[Reese92tsi]

Within the next 2 yrs I plan to go with an aggressive setup and it seems that twins in parallel could give a slight edge over the typical dsm setup. This type of setup might not be what most would call "streetable" but it could be a perfect match to a 2.1L destroked motor with high volumetric efficiency reving past 9500rpm. Being that we only have 2 liters to work with divided turbine housings are a must, the pulses must enter the turbine housing unmolested to keep exhaust velocity into the turbine up. Each turbo should obviously have its own intake pipe instead of having a single intake pipe connected to a Y junction to the turbos. This will ensure that the pressure drop in front of the turbos are kept minimal, pressure drops can cause considerable decreases in compressor efficiency (Pressure ratio will be higher for a given boost level). Like any other turbo system IC pipes and IC should be sized appropriately. With this setup you would route/size the pipes so that excessive pumping losses aren't created. Airflow velocity in a tube should not exceed mach .4 or 450fps (Velocity=airflow(cfm)/area).
I'm not sure if I'm going to attempt this or not I just want to hear some other educated opinions from knowledgeable members of the site.

 

[delta448]

From reading the book it seems that a twin turbo setup may be slightly more efficient than a single turbo

two tailpipes instead of one.

this would probably make more top end power and could possibly increase spool up.

How? WTF What turbo do you think would work for this?
No offense intended, but this sounds ridiculous.

 

[DGajre777]

I'm not sure if I'm going to attempt this or not I just want to hear some other educated opinions from knowledgeable members of the site.

Did you read any of the threads that I linked in post # 2? I think the twin turbo setup is like crankwalk, it has been .

 

[GVR4592]

Within the next 2 yrs I plan to go with an aggressive setup and it seems that twins in parallel could give a slight edge over the typical dsm setup. This type of setup might not be what most would call "streetable" but it could be a perfect match to a 2.1L destroked motor with high volumetric efficiency reving past 9500rpm. Being that we only have 2 liters to work with divided turbine housings are a must, the pulses must enter the turbine housing unmolested to keep exhaust velocity into the turbine up. Each turbo should obviously have its own intake pipe instead of having a single intake pipe connected to a Y junction to the turbos. This will ensure that the pressure drop in front of the turbos are kept minimal, pressure drops can cause considerable decreases in compressor efficiency (Pressure ratio will be higher for a given boost level). Like any other turbo system IC pipes and IC should be sized appropriately. With this setup you would route/size the pipes so that excessive pumping losses aren't created. Airflow velocity in a tube should not exceed mach .4 or 450fps (Velocity=airflow(cfm)/area).
I'm not sure if I'm going to attempt this or not I just want to hear some other educated opinions from knowledgeable members of the site.

What turbine housing and turbine wheels would you plan on using in this setup? At what RPM do you think this setup would reach full boost?

I'm not sure if it was even on this site but there was a guy that did this with two 14b's a few years ago and it didn't work out so well. He wasn't reaching full boost until around 4500 rpms. That's with two tiny ass turbo's, the standard 50 trim that everybody bolts onto their dsm's is significantly larger and has a much higher boost threshold. You could make up for some of the lag with properly built turbo manifold(s), exhaust system, and some creative tuning, but you aren't going to shave more than 500 rpms off of the boost threshold.

 

[Reese92tsi]

How? WTF What turbo do you think would work for this?
No offense intended, but this sounds ridiculous.

What sounds so rediculous about this? The majority of the flow increase from the twin turbo setup would be from the ability to run two exhaust systems (one for each turbine housing). Virtually unlimited exhaust flow after the turbine wheel would help offset the slow spool and this would insure that exhaust manifold pressure stay as low as possible.

 

[Reese92tsi]

What turbine housing and turbine wheels would you plan on using in this setup? At what RPM do you think this setup would reach full boost?

I'm not sure if it was even on this site but there was a guy that did this with two 14b's a few years ago and it didn't work out so well. He wasn't reaching full boost until around 4500 rpms. That's with two tiny ass turbo's, the standard 50 trim that everybody bolts onto their dsm's is significantly larger and has a much higher boost threshold. You could make up for some of the lag with properly built turbo manifold(s), exhaust system, and some creative tuning, but you aren't going to shave more than 500 rpms off of the boost threshold.

Careful selection of the turbine housings and wheels would be extremely important and could
"make" or "break" the setup. The guy with the twin 14b's was doing pretty good to reach full boost by 4500rpm. One 14b on a free flowing setup would be fully spooled by 2800 right? he had two so he should have been spooling well after 5000rpm but maybe the increase in boost threshold isn't quite linear. A boost threshold of 4500 isn't too bad considering two 14b maxed out should bring in enough airflow for 600whp.. The 50 trims were just used as an example and i'm not quite sure of which compressor I would go with, maybe a GT series comp wheel might be a better alternative, maybe something alittle smaller than a GT3076.