twin engine 1g

[Hocus]

Thats funny hearing a car startup after its already running. People are probably gonna be like WTF?!?

 

[Vinny Singh]

Thanks for the props!

The explaination posted a couple threads above, explained why we did it, to me! haha, nice!

It has been done, but when we started it, we didn't do any research to see who else did it. Once we got the 3d model done, we found a couple people have done it already, even way back in 1966 with an blown 442 olds mobile ("Hairy Hurst Olds"). Still, that didn't mean that we shouldn't do it with an import. Then McIntyre did it with the twin engine tiburon, which happened to get finished before our car (never heard of their project before though). We were supposed to be in the USCC of last year, but our engine's both failed, which was a financial blow we couldn't swing back from immediately.

We tried emailing the tibby people to compare notes, but it looks like they don't want to talk about their car much, or if it even runs anymore. From what I was told, the workmanship was pretty rough, and somewhat unsafe, and also a slightly different way of going about it.

We used a FWD TSi clip and welded it in the rear after modeling it all in CAD. Made some structural reinforcements to the underbody, but basically it's a cut and drop (actually, pull up). The car is square to within 2mm, and adjustable up to 1mm either way. It doesn't drive dog-legged hehe. The front suspension can be used in back w/o too much squat at launch, and little lift under braking, it's also beefy enough to handle the extra weight. The car only weighs in around 3600# with driver and some fuel.

The tibby uses seperate transmission computers, we use a single one for safety and predicability. Imagine taking a turn and giving it some gas, and the rear tcu decides to downshift, while the front stays in 2nd or something, you could lose control of the car. In an A/T, letting off the throttle gives a slight delay before the transmission stops applying forward motion, making it already unpredictable. This also means that we won't be able to do the crazy burnouts that it did (in reverse and drive). But that is ok, I would like to keep my expensive tires, and chassis for a while, hehe. We can adjust the toe in the rear to tilt the wheels left or right some, and turn the front in that opposite direction and do some nice doughnuts, but probably not the insanity the tib creates!

The tibby uses methanol, we want 800hp on pump gas (eventually). I'll be working on it today unless it rains, want to get the rear transmission hooked up electrically.

There are 2 FWD Quaife units on the car, so the powersplit can sometimes be 50/50, but we still find that it does single wheel spins (for very very long distances if you don't let off) from time to time on each end of the car.

Someone mentioned the pikes peak suzuki racer, that was the first twin we had heard about and thought it was bad-ass (and enough proof of concept). It used 2 4 cyl turbo engines, in similar fashion, but it might have used a single transmission somehow. Can't get much details on it.

One more goal was to spend less than $10,000, and get deep into the 10's with an A/T. If we didnt' get ripped off by Miko, that might have happened last year. The other goal was to give the DSM community something bad-ass to relate to, something different, something that could drive to a local race and whoop-ass, and leave w/o f-body or mustang people knowing it's packing 2x the displacement.

It's a little hard to keep it stealthy now, the rear windows are tinted, but not enough that you can't see goofy stuff in the hatch. I even got a note on the car after coming back from a picnic yesterday, and it said I might be able to get a free paint job if I explained what was going on with it (A place called "Factory Look" left it). I had thought it was a parking violation sticker since the plates aren't registered for this year.

Somethings to do before I'm happy with it are,

Pass emmissions (single engine only, with stealth TT cat)
Get 660 or 720cc injectors (anyone got 8? hehe, since I don't have much $ left)
8pt roll bar
alignment
fuel and other interior gauges installed
wiring for rear TCU
and a few other nagging things.

Just email me if you have any questions about the car, I have another guy wanting to make his car mid-engined, and a couple people have said (I don't know how seriously) that they want to do the same twin setup. The tiburon people won't email you back or post anywhere online, but we will!

Long live ClubDSM!

 

[MyRidzPhucked]

anyone have a link to it that actually works?

 

[solberg]

right click and save target as

 

[gsxstac]

Originally posted by Shane818
ok im still lost. if you are putting 250HP to the front wheels 250HP to the rear you have 250HP. each wheel would only push 250HP. not 500. i mean i saw the video and the thing is fast but it makes no sense. you have 500HP but not going to the wheels only 250 to each wheel. anyone wanna explain...........

shane i dont get what the prob is that ur havin about understandin this. lets say a awd dsm have exactly 25% of power goin to each wheel. well thast menas that 250hp would be roughly 62.5hp per wheel. this is with one motor. now u have 2 motor each puttin oout 250hp. one motor does the front 2 wheels and one motor does the rear 2 wheels. so now u have a 250hp motor goin to 2 wheels in the front (125hp per wheel) and u have another 250hp motor puttin 125hp per wheel in the back. now lets do some math. with one engine we had 1 250hp motor puttin down 62.5 hp down to each wheel. now we have 2250hp motors puttin down 125hp to each wheel. last time i check 62.5 x2 equals 125. now lets get real crazy and multiply 125 x4 cuz there are 4 wheels on the car. 125x4 equals 500hp.

now i could get into crazy shit explaing drivetrain loss and how lsd's make diff hp numbers at each wheel but u def wont be able to keep up then.

 

[95eclipseGST008]

Three things.

1. I realize the gas tank was removed to fit the second engine in but are there plans to put it back in after everything is done. I know gas mileage would still suck but its better than fuell cells for driving on the track, especially if it is going to compete in SCC eventually.

2. As far as hiding the second engine from view, isnt it covered up by the heat shield or are there still visable pieaces of the engine?

3. Are you planning to beef up the suspension in order to make it a better car for road courses or is it goig to be strictly for drag racing?

 

[98eclipseRS]

it was posted above a brief statement about drivetrain loss doesnt an awd car loose more than 30% i thought we lost about a 1/3 of or hp in drivetrain loss and that fwd had the least amount of driveline loss. someone correct me if im wrong. Anyway i have watched that video about 5 times and everytime i see it i am still amazed when i firts watched it all i could think of was WTF????? but anyway major props for making that beast man.

 

[OddyseusDSM]

remember that drivetrain loss percentage is only at stock hp, would suck if it climbed with hp.

Vinny Singh - so you did this right? I think its awsome, props to ya man. also my main question, i saw a two engined turbo TEL a while ago in vids and i think also in pics from a meet somewhere (possibly dragstrip?), are you the same guy or are there 2 of these floatin' around?

and your 2.3L's, thats just a stroke conversion w/ the 64 right?

 

[OddyseusDSM]

Drivetrain loss is like 6-10% or something for FWD and like 12-15% for AWD from stock horsepower. the mechanical loss is a constant for no matter howmuch power your making

 

[Vinny Singh]

We have 2 8 gallon fuel cells, there is no way a normal "tank" would fit anywhere on the car. We don't even have room for the 3 f&f nitrous bottles in the car (JUST KIDDING )

The suspension is already beefed up with AGX shocks at setting 3, and 450lb/inch DSS springs/coilovers. We have a RRE 1g FWD chassis brace (in the rear of the car since its a FWD front subframe/clip we grafted). The car actually feels stiffer than a stock DSM for some reason, we went overboard on the welds and thickness of steel used to fabricate the grafts.

The car itself, doesn't feel heavy just driving it around. At one time, for a test, we put 600lbs of bricks into the back of a 92 Laser AWD, and that was a scarey time, the car would roll everywhere. Was afraid that might happen here, but with the FWD suspension in rear, it seems to do just fine. Doesn't even squat or lift much under accel/brake.

The rear engine is perfectly visible once the hatch is opened and relatively easy to work on. There is a removable firewall between the passenger compartment and rear engine bay, similar in design and function to the non-removable wall on early MR2's. Where the rear glass is on an MR2, we have 2 sheets of 1/4" plexiglass, seems to keep the heat, fumes and any flying engine parts or hot fluids, out.

The car is mostly made for dragracing, but it might also handle pretty well. Haven't had a chance to really test it out, but it should be good enough for some spirited street driving, if not actual road-racing. I haven't auto-x'ed in years, we shall see

The 2.3's are basically a clearanced 4g63t block and oilpan, with the 2.4 crank. Custom ROSS pistons are used to reduce the height and keep compression at around 8.5:1.

I believe it's the same car, we took it too the last two shootouts, and have had pictures of the car posted here and there from time to time. I got sick of it when the engines failed and had to wait until I saved enough to rebuild them again.

Thanks again!

 

[Wikkedson]

THat is the most retarded thing i have ever seen. WTF!
Even if it does have 500whp think about how much it weighs!!!!
I would guess close to 4000lbs with a driver.
#### that
15k spent on it. THink about 15k would do with a regular 91awd. Why not just make 500whp with one motor?

Maybe I am hating on it. But thats just my opinion.
Major props to all the guys who did the work though. Might want to look into going on the monster garage show.

 

[stuffy1256]

did you not even read vinny's first post? the weigh is 3600... the same as a freakin vr-4... and did you read my post about drivetrain loss in this thread... two engines FWD/RWD is SO much better than just AWD... and yup you are just hating on it

 

[DSMkid14]

####in badass vinny, props to you.

and come one people, how can u bash on thsi project, its jsut so ####ing original and awesome.

 

[91TSiGuy]

Originally posted by Vinny Singh
Just email me if you have any questions about the car, I have another guy wanting to make his car mid-engined, and a couple people have said (I don't know how seriously) that they want to do the same twin setup.

Well, I guess I'm not going to keep quiet anymore, but I'm the one who's talked to Vinny now and then about doing the mid-engine 1g dsm. That was my plans for this summer, but I also had 2 project cars that I was fixing up to sell which took up quite a bit of my time and now I'll be pulling my own engine to put in a newly built short block I'm having made right now through wes hess. If you guys have seen my posts in the classifieds section, you'll see I have a bit of 1g parts that I'm selling. These are from the 3 1g's I have sitting out back out my house. I'll be using two of these cars to make this one mid-engine rwd vehicle. Hopefully I can do this project with as little money spent as possible, with most of the cost being a fwd engine and tranny that I still have yet to find. Unfortunately my money right now is going all towards my own car which will in a year or two probably be converted to a race-only vehicle.

But yeah, I just thought I'd mention that I was the one with those plans just in case anyone else might now be thinking about doing that. I just may have to start on that tomorrow now since I'm kinda motivated.

 

[thekellbeast]

Sorry to bring up an old thread like this, but does anyone have a working link to the video of this? Also, does anyone have the links to the supercharged/turbocharged dsm's? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[16vdohcturboawd]

And hey even if it doesnt perform any better than a single engine car they still deserve an A for effort. Ingenuity is always nice. I bet they know there shit.

 

[RipperXX]

x infinity


only thing cooler would be if you got each engine pump 550hp... holy hell 1100hp DSM... "Hello outlaw" "hello 4sec ET" :laugh:

 

[Turbo 420a]

Video link=broken. Even when doing save-target as... I really want to see this to!! That is truly bad-ass Vinny, good luck with the project man!

How about twin engines, each laying down power like Shepherd's?! Close to 2000hp crankshaft HP that would be..

 

[TERBOLASER]

Hey yall I remember a while back my friend showed me this video of a 1g eclipse with 2 engines in it. back one was stuck in third gear it was red talon I believe. I havent seen it since. does any one have the video or know where I can get it or doews any one have the video and does any one know who it was who made it. last i remeber it was a few guys. not shop related.

 

[jp171]

Wasn't this Vineet Singh's stillborn project? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by jp171
Wasn't this Vineet Singh's stillborn project? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The links to it are on here because I remember posting them.. AFAIK he still has it although he hasn't posted on AT-DSM in a while...

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

http://kaizen.eaglecars.com/twintalon.wmv

That was the link I had and it doesn't work anymore..

 

[Defiant]

I had a drive crash, and now my copy seems corrupted. Goddammit.

 

[14.5 drift]

for a damn good reason. I demand to see this video damn it!!!!

 

[IAMCLP1]

This guy lives right down the road from me... CRAZYYYYYYYYYY that is all I have to say!

This guy should get some huge props!