Turbo help

[talontsi3]

some advise on what turbo to get? I'm debating on either the garrett t28 the small 16G or the big 16G. I only want to run around 17-18 psi (all the way to red line) I was leaning more towards either the small or the t28 because of spool up time. But Ive also read the the big 16 G can deliver full boost at 3 grand? Money isnt really an issue I just want to get the best turbo for my goal. thanks

 

[andymoraitis]

Tell us a little more about your goals and we'll be able to help you choose the right path a bit more easily.

Nevertheless, all three are capable and fun street turbos but the price differential makes the 16G a solid performance choice for the money. Don't forget about larger injectors, a larger fuel pump and a tuning device to control them if you want to run higher than stock boost levels.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[FORMONTOYA]

And also remember that boost pressure doesn't really mean a whole lot..........it's actually air flow numbers that you want to look at when choosing a turbo.

IE: You can run 20PSI off the T25 (if it could do it) and then 20PSI off a 16G (or any other turbo) and they would react totally different as it's actually airflow that makes the difference.

 

[JayRolla]

If your looking for 300-350whp then yea get the evo16g. If you looking for more than I would go with a good 50trim or 20g. Also my evo hits full boost by 3400rpm's so it does depend on the set up of the motor, but thats the latest you should see full bost.

 

[syclone]

I see you already have cams and a few other goodies, I would highly recomend at least an MHI EVO3 16g. I have this turbo and it a kick in the ass from a stocker , spool time is great, the noticable lag time from a stocker is very small ,
on the street this is a great turbo, and will run the boost you want without creating as much heat as a smaller turbo .
and with the cams and stuff you got you need something to deliver enough air to get the most out of them.
I have never heard anyone on this board who bought a 16g say they wish they would have went smaller.

Jamie Sanders
96 GSX, most every mod. (stuck as a newbe for 11 months)

 

[brute]

And don't even think about getting it clipped. I say again. Absolutely do NOT get it clipped.

 

[JayRolla]

I agree, dont get it clipped or a bigger wastegate. The 16g is still a small turbo and increased intake temps. A 50 trim or 20g will net you more power off of pump gas since it doesnt increase intake temps as bad.

This is where my brother is having problems. He has all the bolt on mods and a monstor 4" thick intercooler. He cant get more than 17psi without knock. We are running quite a bit of timing so he gets some torque. If we lowered the timing and added boost we would see about 20 more hp, but lose about 40 in torque.

He neted 300whp and 300lb torque at 17psi on his 16g. With a little more boost and less timing he could have got 320 or more but we lost torque on the dyno. I notice most people with evo dynos hit 300 or a little more hp and have 260 or less in torque. The torque feels good though.

 

[talontsi3]

I was going to go with 190 fp, 550's and safc And Im only lookin for 300-350 hp. So The evo 16G is overall the better turbo to go with? My buddy had this turbo but he could not hit full boost till around 4000 could that have been a tuning issue? anywhere between 3-3400 would be fine with me.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I have a BT28 and if I was choosing between T28 and any variant of 16G, I'd pick a Evo3 16G. It's the most bang for the buck at that level since you can pick one up for $550. I'm at 21 psi on my BT28 and currently it appears that my airflow is 28.68 lb/min. Supposedly the AGP BT28 is max rated at 36 lb/min, but it's a struggle to break 300 whp on the turbo. You'll find it much, much easier with a E316G.

Probably the only exception is a GT2871R, garrett ball bearing T28 with .71 a/r. They can push 400hp, but they are expensive.

 

[JayRolla]

I was going to go with 190 fp, 550's and safc And Im only lookin for 300-350 hp. So The evo 16G is overall the better turbo to go with? My buddy had this turbo but he could not hit full boost till around 4000 could that have been a tuning issue? anywhere between 3-3400 would be fine with me.

Yea you will be fine. Im about to install my FMIC, SAFC2, 550's, 2g maf and 190lph pump. Im looking for about 300whp at about 17-20psi, cant get much more on pump with the evo16g. Then im going to install methane injection and cams and hopefully get 350whp out of her.

You buddys car most likely has a large boost leak. That is real late for full boost. I have a few leaks and hit about 15psi at 3400rmp and my brother hits 17-19psi at about 3400rpm also.

 

[talontsi3]

Ok sounds good. thanks. just curious whats the difference between the evo 16G and the GT evo 16g?

 

[JayRolla]

The evo16g is made by MHI(Mitsubishi Heavy Industry). A true mitsubishi turbo. The GT is a knock off where a china company copied the design and made there own. Some people have had good experiences while other have not. Ive personlly seen one of these GT's crack on the first fire up after installation. I would go with the true evo16g.

 

[Jay99420aturbo]

I have a HRC super 16g and it hits full boost at 3000 rpms...... i was told by my cousin that its a 16g but has a t3 t4 compressor housing.. it spools quick....

 

[JayRolla]

I have a HRC super 16g and it hits full boost at 3000 rpms...... i was told by my cousin that its a 16g but has a t3 t4 compressor housing.. it spools quick....

WHAT?? I dont think so. If its the same super 16g im thinking of than its a stock tdo5 housing with a 20g wheel stuffed into it. If your housing looks like a stock 14b than its not a hybrid.

 

[2gGSX]

I have a BT28 and if I was choosing between T28 and any variant of 16G, I'd pick a Evo3 16G. It's the most bang for the buck at that level since you can pick one up for $550. I'm at 21 psi on my BT28 and currently it appears that my airflow is 28.68 lb/min. Supposedly the AGP BT28 is max rated at 36 lb/min, but it's a struggle to break 300 whp on the turbo. You'll find it much, much easier with a E316G.

Probably the only exception is a GT2871R, garrett ball bearing T28 with .71 a/r. They can push 400hp, but they are expensive.

Have you noticed boost drop-off in the upper RPM range either by eye or from logging a MAP sensor? That seems to be a common problem with the BT28's. The FP 17 psi actuator is actually an enormous help from what I've seen off other peoples' logs.

 

[Jay99420aturbo]

WHAT?? I dont think so. If its the same super 16g im thinking of than its a stock tdo5 housing with a 20g wheel stuffed into it. If your housing looks like a stock 14b than its not a hybrid.

Its a HRC super 16g turbo... there is a pic of it on the PacNW forum on the 4th page of self appointed mission thread....(Sorry don't know how to link)

 

[fwdeclipse]

WHAT?? I dont think so. If its the same super 16g im thinking of than its a stock tdo5 housing with a 20g wheel stuffed into it. If your housing looks like a stock 14b than its not a hybrid.

NO they dont look like standard 16gs.The compressor housing is different and they use a 10cm housing.You might be thinking of the bastard 20g or the 16g killer.This turbo is still a 16g.
http://hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/2ndgensuperturbos.htm

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Have you noticed boost drop-off in the upper RPM range either by eye or from logging a MAP sensor? That seems to be a common problem with the BT28's. The FP 17 psi actuator is actually an enormous help from what I've seen off other peoples' logs.

I have the 17psi actuator. My boost holds very solid with only minimal drop off to 20 at high rpm in 3rd (I'm a/t). When I first installed the actuator I forgot to reset my mbc to zero and was pushing 25 lbs solid before I realized it (was stock fuel system at the time) and disconnected the mbc.

I'm currently evaluating my T28 flow issues in other threads and hope to resolve whether it's underperforming or not before I push it further.

 

[2gGSX]

I've had a similar problem with my Evo III (lower than expected airflow numbers). The cold weather here has bumped me up 3 lbs/min airflow (35* vs 70* or so).

Where are you getting your airflow numbers from? I don't see DSMLink in your mods list.

Have you tuned your setup at all? I know part of why my setup feels so slow is the complete lack of fuel tuning (too lazy to get my wideband installed), and thus running a 9.0-9.5:1 AFR is not really helping me.

Our mods lists look very similar to each other meaning we both have some sort of common restriction most likely. My next mod will be a 1g TB and port matched intake manifold/mildly ported TB elbow. I'm hoping this will help a little, but the only way to get near the airflow I'm looking for is a set of cams most likely. Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I'm using my logger to read raw ecu airflow, then adjusting with AFC correction factor. Yeah I don't have a wideband either. I'll be getting DSMLink in january as I feel like I am tuning while blind and deaf using a logger.

I've been tuning over the last couple weeks, but that's another story. While I've been successfully eliminatiing any pulled timing, I totally forgot about AFPR considerations matching pressure to boost and was tuning the wrong way, going richer and richer on the SAFC as I turned up the boost. Currently I am at -20% on HI with 650s at 21 psi. Most everyone else with 650s is around -29 to -31 or so.

I'm going to have to start again from -25% and lean out.

Edit: Nevermind that, just did several more pulls and leaning to -25 HI caused me lots of pulled timing and noticeable loss of power. Now I see why everyone says DSM Link is the best mod they ever got.

 

[JayRolla]

NO they dont look like standard 16gs.The compressor housing is different and they use a 10cm housing.You might be thinking of the bastard 20g or the 16g killer.This turbo is still a 16g.

Ohh yea forgot about that turbo. You dont see to many people running that.