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ECMlink Timing wanders around at idle, doesnt follow tables

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GSXftw

10+ Year Contributor
381
78
Dec 16, 2009
Medford, Oregon
Like the title says, watch my timing at idle, this car will not idle solid while this timing issue is going on. It doesnt follow the timing tables and is getting different numbers. Its been doing this for a month, have many logs but here is the most recent, where I was driving home and upgraded all of my engine grounds. Ive tried locking in open loop, its not fuel trim or AFR, and the wideband flucuating seems to be more of an effect than cause. ISC works proper, just cant keep up with the timing flucating.





1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks? Boost leak tested 5psi above your max boost with no leaks? yes

2). Verified mechanical timing? yes

3). Verified base timing? 5

4). Ignition system COP or Stock Coil:stock
Wire brand and Age:msd 6 mo
Spark Plug brand, type and Gap:ngk bpr7es .028

5). Motor health (Compression Test) Cylinder 1:170
Cylinder 2:168
Cylinder 3:170
Cylinder 4:169

6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments? Idle Switch: link sim
Throttle Cable:yes
TPS:yes
BISS:yes

7). Compression ratio
8.5
8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
no
9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
no
10). Electrical system Car off (not running):
Car running:
what about it?
11). Base fuel pressure and injector values Base Fuel Pressure:42
Injector Size (cc/min):1050

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor Sensor Brand:
aem
Calibration Date:11/25/14

13). Type of fuel Type:92
Percent of Ethanol:10

14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?
yes
 

Attachments

  • log.2014.11.30-03.elg
    47.3 KB · Views: 63
How did you verify base timing. Are you concerned that timing doesnt stay at 5? If so it isnt supposed to.
 
You guys do see that the car doesnt idle because of it yes? Im blipping the throttle so it doesnt die in log[DOUBLEPOST=1417501719][/DOUBLEPOST]better example
 

Attachments

  • log.2014.11.24-03.elg
    76.2 KB · Views: 60
Last edited:
I see what you mean. Try stabilizing your VE a bit if possible. It's going from 49-60 at times.

Try locking it in open loop and see what happens as well.
 
I see what you mean. Try stabilizing your VE a bit if possible. It's going from 49-60 at times.

Try locking it in open loop and see what happens as well.

Yeah that last one was an older log, made some changes since then including the SD table, it just had a much longer idle log for ya. Open loop it still does it. I got it pretty well leveled out tho, despite being on either a stock 2G or stock Evo 8 timing map in the lower idle areas, I pulled some timing out to level it out and that calmed it down a lot, that along with beefing up the charging system and getting better Voltage seemed to stabilize it
 

Attachments

  • log.2014.12.04-01.elg
    23.2 KB · Views: 48
You guys do see that the car doesnt idle because of it yes? Im blipping the throttle so it doesnt die in log[DOUBLEPOST=1417501719][/DOUBLEPOST]better example

I haven't looked at the log yet, but it's more likely that the timing jumping around is a result of idle issues; not the cause of them....especially if you can disable ECU timing adjustments and see a steady 5* at idle.

(Assuming you have DA timing values that aren't out in left field).
 
You have a DTC or 0023 for the camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction. This needs to be addressed.

Guessing that this is the 1G you have, here is a quote from steve to check the CAS

One nice thing about a 1G is you can pull the CAS out and turn it by hand to verify it's basic functionality with nothing more than a voltmeter. There are four wires, one to the MPI power, one to ground and two signals that are pulled up by the ECU to 5v and the CAS pulls them to ground to generate the timing signals.

The first check is that your getting battery voltage to the CAS from the MPI relay and that you have a good ground. The ECU needs to be on and the CAS connected to the harness but off the head. If you don't see 12v then either the wiring is damaged or the MPI relay isn't activated.

Next is to measure the voltage on the two signal line and see if they are showing 5v, if not turn the CAS and see if it goes to 5v. Last is to count the pulses as you turn the CAS, the TDC line should pulse twice per rev and the Crank Angle line four times.

If you don't ever see 5v on one or both then it boils down to the CAS is bad, the ECU or wiring harness is damaged. If unplugging the CAS produces the 5v on the harness pins it's the CAS.

Here is another thread where Gofer drew some diagrams and such.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-test-1g-cas.394020/

Your MAXOct table is pretty lean for 92 octane. I would suggest loading the EVO8MOD1 table after you fix the DTC.

Coasting FC offset should be more around 100. A general rule of thumb is Target Idle - 900=Coasting FC offset.
 
Thanks for the pointers guys. The DTC is from a wire being brittle and breaking, I fixed it right away just have to clear the code. The timing was actually what leveled the thing out and now it idles, I was between a 2G and Evo8 table but the early advance made it ramp up too much. Coasting offset I dont know thats just where it likes it, tries to die when you clutch in if not, might raise up BISS adjustment and go from there. Ive been richening up too :)
 
I saw you mentioned some upgrades to the charging system. This is important, as there's a DA table to adjust deadtime for battery voltage. I had a buddy whose car suddenly idled really really lean, I checked and found that his alternator no longer provided any voltage. He never noticed because he wasnt driving the car until he found the lean issue. Well that was it :p
 
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