Timing belt snapped - bent valves...what else goes wrong??

[MJMgsx]

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have been searching posts for the answer, but I haven't seen anyone ask this specific question.....

I have a 99 GSX. I replaced the timing belt at 55,000 miles (just to be safe) and now my car has close to 78,000 miles. Last week my timing belt broke. I was popping the car into 2nd and then I heard a noise (like a belt snapped) under the engine and my car died.

I took my car to a local repair shop. They said it wasn't fixable and I would need a new rebuilt engine - $5,300 engine. YEAH RIGHT. I guess they meant to say "I have no idea how to work on a Mitsu engine". So, I had it towed to a Mitsu dealership (A friend of mine is a salesman there, so I should be able to trust them).

So here's my question: What usually needs replaced when your timing belt snaps and all 16 valves are bent? The dealership said I need all kinds of stuff replaced, like: New timing belt, timing belt cover, timing belt pulleys and tensioners, head gasket, new valves, valve cover, head gasket, intake valves, balance shaft belt and a few other stuff. They didn't say anything about the pistons. Does all this stuff usually need replaced? Wouldn't the pistons be damaged too? What else normally needs replaced that they didn't mention....or does it depend on the situation.

I'm a newbie! So I'll appreciate any advice. I wish I knew how to fix this stuff myself.

 

[erebusknight]

I would do the pistons anyway since they all the only thing that would really be bending your valves. Search for some companies that have stock rebuilt motors because Ive seen some with a warranty for 2 or 3 years, and they dont cost $5k. In a case like yours I would personally try to find a rebuilt short block. Since you wouldnt be do anything yourself even doing a head will run up your labor bill, so I dont see how you can have a decent engine without a fair bit o cash to dump into it

PS - Im anal about having things work right

 

[MJMgsx]

Thanks for the response. I just called my buddy at the dealership. He said they think my car will cost $1,600 to repair. They would be replacing all the stuff I mentioned in my first post. I asked him about he pistons. He wasn't sure, so he's going to ask them. I think it costs $400-$600 alone to do a timing belt change. So, the $1,600 seems like a good deal for all the work they are going to do. My friend said they "hooked me up" as much as they could.....but who knows what that means.

Should I really get a whole new engine? My car has been running great ever since I got it. This is the first thing I had to fix on it (besides normal wear and tear stuff like brakes). I don't even have the lifter tick that everyone complains about!

 

[jastermerrel]

A whole new engine is not necessary. They will/should just rebuild your head and change your timing components (pulleys, tensioner, belts). Unless a valve punched through the piston, then those shouldn't need replacing. I jumped time and been all the intakes, the pistons where fine. I had the head rebuilt for under $500. Put on new timing components and belt and was done with it. Labor prices are going to costs you a lot anyway, so I think they are being fair. I pulled the head and reinstalled it myself.

 

[IslanderTsi]

Good excuse to learn how to build a head. Pull it yourself, strip it down and have it hot tanked. New valves, seals hg etc put it together and now you have a brand new head with less expense and some new skills as well

 

[GSTinCO]

You could do it yourself but if you have no mechanical experience then I wouldn't reccommend it for the qouted price with all materials supplied.

 

[IslanderTsi]

true io guess. Although nothing is really hard in the end if you take your time and double check everything as you go. Agravating perhaps but not really hard per see.

 

[4pistons]

A head rebuild and timing belt replacement is NOT for a newbie or someone less mechanically inclined. On DSMs it is a complex job with MANY details that have to be just right or you're doing it alll over again. I wouldn't even take it to a dealer! Find a DSM specialty shop in your area. Then you'll know it's done correctly.

If the pistons were just nicked they do not need to be replaced. Just lightly grind or sand down any sharp or rough edges so they don't create hot spots.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[IslanderTsi]

That one of the reasons I do everything myself. Even if I didint mind spending way to much money at the dealership to have work done I dont trust the idiots what so ever. Bunch of scuzbags at the new (and only mitsu dealership in the province) mitsu dealer.

 

[kenamond]

Find out if the mechanics who work at that Mitsu shop were around for more than 6 years or so when some of the 2gs were still under powertrane warranty. If so, they've probably done this a fair number of times before. If they haven't, consider taking it somewhere with experience with this motor.

 

[gsxpj6428]

it all depends on how bad the valves screwed with the pistons until u pull the head off, but pistons can take a hell of alot more beating than valves but everything on the list seems to be right. my timing belt slipped but i only had to change out my valves luckily.

 

[oldman]

Valve guides sometimes get damaged during the valve bending process so I would change those as well. Timing belt covers shouldn't be needed unless they were damaged during the process but idler and tensioner pullies as well as auto tensioner and water pump is a must. Did you cheap out on the auto tensioner on your 55k timing belt job? Did you use OEM parts? $1600 will get you an almost top of the line head (P&P, 1mm ss valves, dual TI spring....etc, but will not include timing belt components, gaskets and labor. Think hard about what you want to do with this car before you decide, good luck.

 

[MJMgsx]

Thanks everyone. This site is really a good resource. I registered about 3 years ago. but never really gave it a chance. That was dumb. Anyways...

I think my first mistake was that I bought the timing belt kit from eBAY. I looked at my eBAY account and found the guy I bought it from. He's still selling the same kits. Check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ECLIPSE-TALON-TIMING-BELT-KIT-w-WATERPUMP-4G63-90-99_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33625QQitemZ8053838165QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

The guy that installed it (a Mitsu dealership employee doing side work) said it looked like a good kit. But I guess I should have stuck with OEM parts. This garbage barely lasted 20,000 miles.

For everyone that suggested that I try to do the work myself, thanks for the recommendation - but I don't think I'm quite at that experience level yet! Yeah, I don't want to mess with the engine too much yet. I do plan on installing a cold air intake and maybe a B&M short shifter. Although I don't know how hard that would be to install?

I'll let everyone know what I find out on Monday from the dealership. I'm hoping the $1,600 will cover all the damages. If it does, I'll probably let them do the work this time. Sorry to let everyone down. I just don't think I'm up to the challange just yet.

 

[Talonman92]

Same exact thing happend to me, drivin down the street and pop! there goes the timing belt. Took the head off inspected the pistons they looked fine actually only 2 valves actually broke off and were sittin on top of the... #3 piston i wanna say. The rest of the valves were bent to shit. Took the head in to get rebuit for around 350$. Not sure what they all had to fix (###### everything) Works great now though!!

Good Luck!

 

[wreckshop56]

i just had my head rebuilt 2days ago...timing belt broke and bent 4 valves...i posted on here and the total price for everything including timing belt was 1200 and the guys on here went crazy talking about that was 2 much...but all i can say is ### ### ### CHECK YOUR OIL RIGHT AFTER ITS DONE...NO MATTER WHAT THE MECHANIC SAYS...THEY DIDNT PUT ENOUGH OIL IN MY CAR AND 2DAY MY OIL LIGHT CAME ON..also check to make sure they secure all of your valcum hoses..
$1200 walk out price
rebuilt head
timing belt
headgaskets seals
crank seal
some other seals
water pump << might as well since they doing the engine

 

[MJMgsx]

Well, I talked to the dealership today. They told me that they pulled the head to start doing the work and they found out that the pistons were destroyed. They must have smashed up against the valves so hard they damaged the valves and the pistons (the valves were so bad they told me they took pictures of it to share with everyone - they never saw anything that bad before!) I'm working on getting the pictures to post on this site...

They also said the head was cracked? I don't know if that's possible or not, but I guess so. They said that it would be 30-35 hours worth of labor to fix it. I'm pretty sure they charge $70 per hour. So I'm lookin at $2,100 - $2,450 just in labor!! Screw that.

Now I'm searching for a good rebuilt motor. Does anyone have any advice? I looked at http://www.slowboyracing.com/, but I'm not looking for something that high end. I've heard bad things about the JDM motors, but I think they only offer used motors that they claim only have "30-50,000 miles".

Help!

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

http://www.car-part.com/index.htm

 

[sower23]

What I would do if i were you is get some 1g rods and new 2g pistons, (decent amount of power handling for price), and i would find a head for cheap if yours is cracked and have it redone. A head job isn't that hard at all, the hardest part is putting the timing belt on, but if you have a haynes manual, it isn't that bad, also most of us on this site have done it too so you could ask questions. To pull the head all you have to do is mark and disconnect vacuum lines, a motor mount, turbo, valve cover head bolts, pull the head with the manifolds right on them. Then you could have seen whether or not the pistons were bad and seen how bad the valves were bent. If you aren't looking for a lot of power do 1g rods and a new head. I do by the way have a set of rods and a 1g head with only one bad valve if you are interested. The main part of a head change is making sure you get the block surface clean, but if your pistons are bad, you may just want to pull the block and get it cleaned and if i were you send it off and get the crankwalk problem fixed so you wont have to worry about that happening, then you will have a good motor that will be able to handle future mods, cause everybody knows, once you start modding, you can't stop, it's like a disease...addiction, at least for me anyways. Good Luck!!!
(By the way the valve went bad because it got "burnt" not from a timing belt so all the other valves are good so you would only need to replace one of them minimal, i would do all of them though.

 

[MJMgsx]

Thanks again for the advice.

It can be difficult at times to find someone you trust to work on your car. Not only do you have to worry that they are doing the work right, but you have to worry about how much they are overcharging you.

I finally decided to get a whole new rebuilt engine. I have a family friend that owns a repair shop (he normally works on big trucks and buses), but he said he would have no problem swapping out engines. But the only problem is that he doesn't understand the hype about "modding" your car. He is used to fixing things that break with the same exact stock parts. So here's my dilemma:

Since he is pulling out the old engine and putting in a new rebuilt Jasper engine (http://www.jasperengines.com/), what else should I have him do that won't cost big $$$$ since I'm already spending $2,900 on the new engine. I called Jasper directly and it would cost $4,150 for the engine. Luckily my friend-of-the-family offered to give me the engine at his cost (saving me $1,250). Right now I don't think I can afford to put more than $700 on this project.

What do you think I should do with the extra $700? I was thinking about getting a T28 or 14b....but I don't know if there's something better to do with the extra $$$ instead of the turbo. The new engine doesn't come with a new turbo and they said my old one looks fine. I'm not trying to build a 500hp engine or anything....just want it to run a little better and faster.

Thank you in advance!

 

[elfroggo]

Did you try to at least talk to the seller of your rebuild kit? He seems to offer a one year warranty. But honestly when it comes to car parts, it's way too easy to just say that it was installed improperly and bugger off.

I guess there wouldn't be any point in telling him, he wouldn't pay for a new motor. The best he could do is send you another kit, and that's would be useless

 

[MJMgsx]

Hey everyone. My car is still stuck at the dealership. Since my valves and pistons are destroyed (and the head is cracked) - I'm having it towed today to have a new Jasper engine installed. I had my buddy at the dealership send me a few picture messages from his cell phone. I'll try to get some good quality pics with my digi camera on Monday.

Sorry the pics are so small. When I tried to enlarge them - they looked like $#%#

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[MJMgsx]

I just showed the pics to my friend. He said as far as he could see (keeping in mind the pics are small) the valves don't look that bad?

I hope I can get better pics before my new engine is installed.

Can anyone else tell how bad they look?

Thanks

MJM

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

Well the pics so small so nobody can really comment.

In the 2nd to bottom picture, the one with the orange blanket looking thing; the cylinder on the far right looks like it has something in there, what could be pieces of brokewn valve(s). It could be anything though; too hard to see.

Actually it may be the damage is so light, it might run like that?

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

JUst do a head, and all new timing components; that is, if the engine was good before, as far as compression, and not burning alot of oil.

Or else if you replace the whole engine: Get a 6 bolt with balance shaft removed!

 

[MJMgsx]

Just wanted to show a pick of a few of my valves. All 16 were bent when my timing belt broke. Look at the chips taken out of the head in the picture. I can't believe how much damage there was.

This is why you should change your timing belt every 60,000 miles!!!

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Hey, off the subject...but why can't I attach more than two pictures at a time on all of my posts combined? Is there a limit for New Members or something?