timing belt question... yea yea i know

[moparmadd]

ok so last night i finallyt decided to replace my leaking oil seals (oil pump seal and crank seal). i had been putting it off because i knew what it involved. while we were in there my and my friend replaced both timing belts. we timed it up and didnt think to double check it and nows its off 2-3 teeth but still starts fine, just has a quite rough idle. i was wondering if ne one knew a way to jump the timing without taking everything off again since we dont have a shop to work in today. im still just surprised since its an interference engine that i havnt kissed a piston yet. PLEASE HELP SOON!!! I GOTTA DRIVE 50 MILES TOMORROW!

 

[wret]

No. You have to take the covers off, release the tension, line it up again, and tighten everything back down.

 

[aadperformance]

no cutting corners with this one

 

[blackGSX2g]

Yes, you have to take it all apart again. This is why it should have been checked BEFORE you put it all back together. When you do it again, spin the crank by hand a few times after putting tension back on to make sure all the marks are still lined up.

 

[Xplicit93AWD]

Man i wish there was a way my timing is also off and i been procatinating on fixing it i have done my timing atleast 3 times and i hate working just on that side of the engine.....but yea you cant cut corners wit that i wish you the best and if you have to drive all that tomorrow i would get to work .......good luck

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Not only do you have to take it back apart, you really need to see what was done wrong to allow it to jump teeth. Most common problem is the auto tensioner was not set properly. I find that to be prevalent among failures. Well, that and most times it's not been replaced. Your car lives and dies by the auto tensioner. When the belt is on, and everything is lined up, spin the engine by hand 6 revolutions to see if it comes back in line. Also, look at the pin hole in the auto tensioner. Is it still in line with the hole in the body of the tensioner? If it has extended, it was not set properly and has to be taken off and compressed and done again. And again and again if that is what it takes. It's not all that unusual to have to do a re-compress on an auto tensioner.

Good Luck

 

[moparmadd]

Not only do you have to take it back apart, you really need to see what was done wrong to allow it to jump teeth. Most common problem is the auto tensioner was not set properly. I find that to be prevalent among failures. Well, that and most times it's not been replaced. Your car lives and dies by the auto tensioner. When the belt is on, and everything is lined up, spin the engine by hand 6 revolutions to see if it comes back in line. Also, look at the pin hole in the auto tensioner. Is it still in line with the hole in the body of the tensioner? If it has extended, it was not set properly and has to be taken off and compressed and done again. And again and again if that is what it takes. It's not all that unusual to have to do a re-compress on an auto tensioner.

Good Luck

tensioner is fine. we checked everything and we used the miller special tools. and their are ways of jumping it back in time. one of em im afraid to do and two of them i cant do. one is turning the crank by hand and putting screwdrivers in the cam gear teeth yourwant to jump.. not sure how many or what not but the cover gets in the way and i was a genius and put a random inverted torx up top. another way is sticking a pry bar down the cover and releieving tension which i cant doo since i cant get one of the bolts off the cover. the other is to take a pretty stiff peice of sheet metal and feed it into the cam gear.. this one scares me but it might be worth a shot... i just dont wanna spend another hour and a half timing the ####er

 

[moparmadd]

AHAHAA! SCREW TAKING IT ALL APART AGAIN!!! thats right i did it. i took 3 peices of metal ducting and cut it to the size of the cam gear width. turned the crank to suck each peice in one by one ever so slowly, then just tapped the gear back a tooth then turned the crank back! IT WORKED!!! shes runs like a champ again!... i cant wait till im a flate rate technician... im gunna make bank on dsms now. checked the timing marks 3 times afterward. first by turning the crank 10 times and 2 more by running the car for a few min. still in time... im so happy. its a good day for dsm

 

[nsxwidebodied]

sorry, but there are not short cuts on this case.....GL

 

[nsxwidebodied]

im sorpriced that worked, i might try it later......good luck with that car

 

[g63tawd]

Keep us posted on that. It is surprising it worked but everyone gets lucky. Congrats and just check it every once in a while theres nothing worse than false confidence.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

tensioner is fine. we checked everything and we used the miller special tools. and their are ways of jumping it back in time. one of em im afraid to do and two of them i cant do. one is turning the crank by hand and putting screwdrivers in the cam gear teeth yourwant to jump.. not sure how many or what not but the cover gets in the way and i was a genius and put a random inverted torx up top. another way is sticking a pry bar down the cover and releieving tension which i cant doo since i cant get one of the bolts off the cover. the other is to take a pretty stiff peice of sheet metal and feed it into the cam gear.. this one scares me but it might be worth a shot... i just dont wanna spend another hour and a half timing the ####er

Perhaps you can do that and get away with it. Being as I do this for a living I would not want to chance it. If it was done right, you would have not had to "jump" it back into time. This does not diagnose or repair what caused it in the first place.

However, good luck

 

[moparmadd]

Well the person and I who did this do this for a living too. We both drive talon tsi awd's as well. What happened was we put the belt on the cam gears first and held them on with clips. Then when we went to put the belt around the crank, the cam gears spun one tooth. The tensioners ARE FINE! Both the hydraulic and eccentric tensioner were both put on properly and checked with the miller tools. then we got rushed because the sales department was closing so we had to get out of the shop so it slipped our minds to checked it all again. And I know many techs who have had to jump the time on the 4g63, some who have been doing it for 30 some od years so this would be a technique that could be used by many people who know what their doing. There was no chance involved, nothing bad could have happened unless you are a complete idiot and slice the belt, but this isnt my first time working on a car. SO there is no diagnosis or repair required here, trust me.

 

[PaulN]

Well. On my car a so called professional did a timing job on my current car and only replaced the belts because he thought the tensioners and pullies "were fine" so they didn't replace them.

So now my car is on jackstands getting ready to have a new engine installed because less than 1000 miles later the belt failed again.

You know not to be mean or anything, but it's that kind of attitude that has so many of us completely paranoid about having most mechanics touch our cars.

I hope it works out for you though.

 

[Boostedexcel]

is it bad to leave the auto tensioner compressed while I wait for a couple more parts to finish up the install?

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Well the person and I who did this do this for a living too. We both drive talon tsi awd's as well. What happened was we put the belt on the cam gears first and held them on with clips. Then when we went to put the belt around the crank, the cam gears spun one tooth. The tensioners ARE FINE! Both the hydraulic and eccentric tensioner were both put on properly and checked with the miller tools. then we got rushed because the sales department was closing so we had to get out of the shop so it slipped our minds to checked it all again. And I know many techs who have had to jump the time on the 4g63, some who have been doing it for 30 some od years so this would be a technique that could be used by many people who know what their doing. There was no chance involved, nothing bad could have happened unless you are a complete idiot and slice the belt, but this isnt my first time working on a car. SO there is no diagnosis or repair required here, trust me.

If it works for you, and 25 years from now you have not lost an engine to premature timing belt failure. I will take my hat off to you. However, I think I'll stick to the factory way as I've never lost an engine due to improper install. Tomorrow's another day though.

Good Luck


Yes, you can leave the auto tensioner compressed. They come shipped that way and who knows how long they hang on to them before they are sold and installed.

 

[DSMGSX95]

There is a way you jump the belt, BUT as everyone else has already said you really should take it apart. What you need are about 8 peices of a steel or aluminum rod slightly longer then the length of the timing gear teeth and the diameter has to be at least the same as the thickness of the timing gear teeth. By working the several pieces of rod under the belt just before the teeth on the belt engage the teeth on the gear then rotating the the assembly so that the rods force the belt up it is possible to slip the belt forwardone tooth at a time. I have to emphasize that this proceedure is EXTRENELY risky if you are not absolutely sure of what your doing. I've done it and it worked for me. Again I can't say this enough unless you have no other choice and you are an accomplished mechanic I won't try this.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

While it is possible to "jump" a belt back into place, I was just wondering unless you know the exact reason it jumped in the first place, I would be dubious about doing it. As was explained above, the cam gears jumped , I would want to see the whole thing to perhaps protect a very expensive head.


Just being cautious.

 

[PaulN]

Bottom line is you got very lucky that it jumped timing and didn't hurt anything. You're lucky you get a do over. Most of us don't get a do over. Take this opportunity/warning and make it right.